the ref attribute from the navigation book.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The ref attribute is important because it references a specific menu, but because the specific menu is local to the site instance, when you export a theme, that&#8217;s not going to exist on every site. We did explore doing this for every single navigation block, but obviously, not everyone&#8217;s exporting a theme. Some people just want to save a theme, and then they&#8217;ve got a collection of local themes that they use. It&#8217;s not always applicable, and it can mean that it visually looks like you&#8217;ve lost an entire menu when all of this happens. It&#8217;s just lost its reference to the existing menu. Alternatively to that, if you are exporting a theme and you want to distribute it on the theme directory or anywhere else, you probably don&#8217;t want to reference a menu that doesn&#8217;t exist anywhere else. It maybe sounds confusing if you don&#8217;t know the block markup for the navigation block. If you do, you probably, well, hopefully, when you see the option, you&#8217;re like, &#8220;Oh yeah, I do want to do that please remove over.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It doesn&#8217;t assume things that are there that are not there, and then it&#8217;s not a good experience for a new user of a theme. Yeah, of course.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris</em>: Yeah, makes sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Totally makes sense. How are Patterns actually treated in the Create Block Theme?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> For pattern management, that&#8217;s like the next thing we&#8217;re looking at because it&#8217;s a bigger beast to tackle, and interesting how it&#8217;s going to work with the changes in 6.6, but we can talk about those later, maybe. Currently, the main interaction with Patterns at the moment is that with the options, I&#8217;ve just gone through, the save options, with making text translatable and moving the image assets into the theme assets folder. Both of those things currently require PHP. Probably if you&#8217;ve been using the editor to make any changes and haven&#8217;t jumped into the code, everything is going to be in HTML. Create Block Theme will move these references into a PHP file, which is by creating a pattern. Because that&#8217;s currently the only way or one of the best ways, I guess, to make text translatable and to reference image assets from the theme director. That&#8217;s currently the only interaction with Patterns at the moment. We are hoping to maybe introduce pattern management, or at least iteratively make the pattern management experience better when using Gutenberg. That&#8217;s our hope anyway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Patterns have been around for a long time. Well, it&#8217;s not the Patterns that were around for a long time, it&#8217;s a reusable block that can be used as a template part, for instance, and it&#8217;s now called Sync Pattern. They had its own import export feature in WordPress or still have that you can import Patterns via JSON where you can copy paste them from the pattern directory. There are many different ways to get to Patterns, so having one feature in Create Block plugin, that&#8217;s going to be a complex piece to tackle. Yeah, definitely. They also have the references to the original Patterns when you have the synced overrides. That&#8217;s something we are going to talk about. It&#8217;s going to be real complex. What I also like is that you can update the metadata of your new theme within the sidebar with a plugin, so you can change the name of it and you can change the description and do it all right there, so you really don&#8217;t have to touch code for that. That is a really good thing. What else? Oh, yes. Yeah, what else?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Like you said, we&#8217;ve got a new metadata editor within the editor. You can now open a modal, I guess similar to the custom method fields. It just means, again, all the information goes into the readme.txt file, so probably anyone who&#8217;s editing that information already is familiar with editing the read me, but it just means that you don&#8217;t need to jump into your code editor and you can stay in the WordPress editor. Then, yeah, the other big thing is that you can now view your theme JSON file, so the currently active themes JSON file. Again, we&#8217;ve got a view to enable editing of this as well in the editor. Again, just saving you jumping in between code editor and on WordPress. That&#8217;s another exciting one. Hopefully, saves people time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That was actually the biggest, whoa. When I demoed that, I added a few custom colors and showed them in the editor and then saved them. The only barrier is you have to do two saves, you have to save it in the database or on the editor, and then you have to click on save and the Create Block plugin sidebar. Then I was able to show them, okay, and now let&#8217;s look at the theme JSON, and it shows the little custom colors palette there. It was really a big help to show the power of this Great Block Theme plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Do you want to go through some of the changes from the change log of the plugin?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yes. Let&#8217;s see what we haven&#8217;t talked about. We&#8217;ve talked about the UI refactor. One of the recent big changes has been now Create Block Theme will process any background images on the Group Block, which it previously didn&#8217;t do. I know that, that&#8217;s probably a really popular theme option when people are adding background images to the Group Block. Now those will be exported with a Create Block Theme export as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That&#8217;s great. I know I saw an issue also already used for one of the features that comes in 18.1, is the background for the whole site that you can add. That&#8217;s on the roadmap for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, it is. Although, I think that we&#8217;re handling that in Gutenberg as well, I think, which is really interesting, so that&#8217;s probably another. I think we&#8217;re making it relative to the theme or there&#8217;s some exploration there, anyway. We need to look into that in more detail on how we can use Create Block Theme alongside that because that&#8217;s really interesting. The other thing I wanted to mention, is another recent update is you can now persist the safe changes options. The ones I run through before, there&#8217;s quite a lot and they&#8217;re basically surfaced as check boxes. If you&#8217;re a theme builder or if you&#8217;ve build in a lot of themes, you&#8217;re probably going to use the same options every time. There&#8217;s a new option now that will remember the check-boxes that you use basically, so you don&#8217;t have to keep unchecking or checking boxes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Very helpful. Yes, thank you. Awesome. This is your little knowledge bit on the Create Block Theme. I really love that plugin and it had changed. From what I hear in the Outreach Channel and also with the people that I talk to, is that it changed the workflow on building block themes quite a bit and made it so much easier to just create themes. The only thing that it doesn&#8217;t do yet, I&#8217;m thinking, is to switch off some of the features of the Block Editor that are in the custom settings. If you want to switch off dimension controls or if you want to switch off custom color settings or something like that, you still have to do that or have the theme JSON, but I think that&#8217;s just one part that you still need to touch code.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s a good point. We should introduce a new modal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I think there were some great examples there in the early days of block themes, because many theme developers or agency developers actually have this that build bespoke themes for one project and never replicated for any other project. They have this need to introduce guardrails on colors and typography because it&#8217;s brand styling. If you give users too much freedom on that design, they come up with your own designs and sometimes that&#8217;s detrimental to the clean look and feel of a website, so they want to build some guardrails. Right now, that&#8217;s only possible through theme JSON or theme support in the functions PHP. I also can see that most of those developers are not using the Create Block Theme out of the box. They&#8217;re using some of their themes and then have those theme JSON settings already in there and then use the Create Block Theme to just make the additional changes on the templates and on the colors or something like that. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s big, but it could be something we could look into.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; WordPress 6.5.3 RC1</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Although there was already a release to the WordPress releases, we have WordPress 6.5.3 release candidate, was just released, and it&#8217;s now available for testing. The final release is scheduled for May 7th. That&#8217;s next week. Many of you are listening to this past ad, so go and update your WordPress instances on your websites. It contains about 18, not a bad day, it contains exactly 19 bug fixes discovered with WordPress 6.5 release that couldn&#8217;t wait until 6.6 and also wasn&#8217;t supposed to wait. They are out now. You can follow up on the full list via the announcement post that will be in the show notes. There weren&#8217;t any particular bug fixes that stand out where I said, all good that, that is fixed, but also didn&#8217;t work too much with 6.5. I&#8217;m glad contributors worked on that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.1</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, let&#8217;s get to the two last Gutenberg releases. The first tagline, Gutenberg 18.1, it was a fairly large release and, Release Lead Ramon Dodd, had the release post on what&#8217;s new in Gutenberg 18.1. That&#8217;s the release that answer has the background image for the Site Editor, but let&#8217;s take it from the top.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhancements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> The first one we were going to talk about is the zoom out, so this is invoking zoom out mode when opening the Patterns tab. It&#8217;s a great enhancement, because I think whenever you, or I guess most of the time when you insert a pattern, you&#8217;re going to want to see a bird&#8217;s eye view or well, literally, a zoomed-out view of your page because otherwise, you&#8217;re going to be zoomed into a smaller area of the page and it&#8217;s hard to see the new pattern or visualize where you want the pattern to go when you can only see a small section of the page. This invokes zoom out mode when you open the Patterns tab. I&#8217;d love to hear some feedback around if people are finding this useful as well. I think it feels very natural as well. It feels like a very nice animation that happens as well when you open the Patterns tab.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, I like it too. Also, in the Site Editor, you can now rename pages through the actions three-dot menu. Pages are now in the Site Editor, you can view them through the data view, the whole DataViews&#8217; new components and tables and the different layout views. You can have the grid layout view of all the pages and on your site, and then you have three-dot menus on the bottom of each card that gives you immediate actions that you can take with a page. One of them is rename a page, give it a new title, even if it&#8217;s a no-title page kind of thing. It&#8217;s an easy way to fix headlines and all that. I really like it for the new admin sections there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris</em>: Another update to that page view that you&#8217;ve just been talking about is well, updating the index view. I think these changes are all related to the DataViews project. There&#8217;s some really good work going in here. It brings there the list of pages to the new DataViews section.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>The List View, so you have on the left-hand side, you have the navigation that is in the dark background, and then the List View shows you each page with a thumbnail or something like that in the title. Then when you click on it, it opens up another panel where you can see the whole page. It&#8217;s also quite interesting for the workflow that was, you never were able to do that in WordPress before. It was always you had to click on it and then it opens it again. This is much smoother and you can browse all the pages quite easily and to see how they look. It seems to be magical that they actually display the front-end view of the page in the editor, so it&#8217;s really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Instead of having to click into a page, wait for a page reload and then click another one and wait for another reload. It&#8217;s now right there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah, right there. The same, we see that for the pattern pages, there&#8217;s now also a table layout where you can see the patterns and then it opens it up. Then the content schema for pattern editing view. I wasn&#8217;t quite sure what that was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s when you can name blocks in a pattern, and then when you come out to the pattern view when you&#8217;re inserting a pattern, you&#8217;ll be able to see a content panel. Then those name blocks will show in that content panel. It&#8217;s probably good if you watch the video, the handy video that&#8217;s on the PR. It probably does a better explanation. It&#8217;s going to be good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, that helps me quite a bit because sometimes you see paragraph heading, paragraph heading, heading, heading, image.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You don&#8217;t know exactly where you&#8217;re on the page, but if things have a name you know, &#8220;Okay, I&#8217;m in the right section where I want to change things in the List View. The List View is, I&#8217;m obviously not creating too much content because the List View is not part of my muscle memory. When I was demoing things from the theme and how things are changed, I never opened up the List View and people asked me behind that. The List View is always open, how to navigate the whole pages and all that. It&#8217;s definitely a change in muscle memory to open that up because the List View wasn&#8217;t really helpful in the first few years of the Block Editor, so I didn&#8217;t develop that. Okay, next. Next is a background UI controls that are now really extensive. You can have, what was it? The focus on the image. You can have a tiled background image on things and you can have a section, but this is set for the top level.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yes, I think so. Well, so I think it&#8217;s related to the top level, the new top-level background image setting. As we tend to do in Gutenberg, we&#8217;ll add the setting, the new style setting to theme JSON. Then this PR I think that we&#8217;re looking at is adding the UI controls. This surfaces it in the editor. This is, again, it&#8217;s very close to theming. It really elevates what you can do for themes. Again, this would&#8217;ve just been, you would&#8217;ve had to do it with code and probably custom CSS.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Now you can, through the editor, you can change the background position, you can change the repeat, yes or no, or the background size of it, does it cover the whole thing, or there&#8217;s another one restrained. You can just upload the image there. I like background images, it gives so much more dimensions and layers to the Block Editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, it does. I really love web designs that use a big full-size background image. That&#8217;s the kind of design I like. I&#8217;m really pleased to see this come to the editor. We&#8217;ll see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> There&#8217;s something that the DataViews, and I know it was there before that you can clear out customizations to templates, but now you also get a confirmation modal. I have learned that when you want to do, so some people wanted to switch out the theme, no, the updates of the theme doesn&#8217;t update templates at all when they were previously changed because the user changes trump the theme changes. When you update a theme on your site and you want the new changes coming in on templates for themes, you need to clear out the customizations beforehand. It&#8217;s a little bit of a quirk right now, and I don&#8217;t know how to solve this because of the hierarchy of changes, but maybe the Create Block theme. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s a scope for that as well, but it&#8217;s something users and theme developers need to get their head around that, that&#8217;s actually what&#8217;s happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, exactly. Maybe a good solution here for the first case, it&#8217;d just be to surface what&#8217;s going on and try and explain to people just different levels of saving and this is how it works, like the template hierarchy, you just have to get used to that. Maybe there&#8217;s a first step of just telling people where things are being saved. I think this change helps you be less unintentionally destructive as well, because resetting things, it&#8217;s just, &#8220;Oh, I didn&#8217;t realize I was going to clear everything.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, you&#8217;re so right. Well, there are people who don&#8217;t press a button because they fear that they set up a nuclear bomb, but some people are just clicking around and saying, &#8220;Oh, I didn&#8217;t do anything,&#8221; but it all made it disappear. For them, it&#8217;s the next step as kind of have a confirmation modal, so you can think twice about what you&#8217;re doing there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> The next one we&#8217;ve got is related to the List View you just mentioned. I think this makes it much easier to navigate. It&#8217;s adding keyboard shortcut to collapse List View items, but excluding the focused items. You&#8217;ve got the List View on the left-hand side and say you do have a lot of content, unlike Birgit, depending on the length, I think it can be challenging to navigate just because it&#8217;s another scrollable section. Adding this keyboard shortcut makes it much easier to collapse nested groups, basically. Yeah, it&#8217;s a good addition. Again, it&#8217;s probably good to watch the video.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s definitely also a good quality of life kind of thing. I think that was for the enhancement of 18.1, Gutenberg plugin updates, 18.1.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Accessibility</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s one thing that is available was an accessibility change for the DataViews that you can update. It has updated keyboard navigation in the list layout, so you can navigate through that through your keyboard, which is very important, so you don&#8217;t have to wait for the screen reader to announce everything. Then how do you get there? By keyboard. That&#8217;s a good thing. I think that was it for 18.1.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.2</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We can now immediately go into the change law of 18.2, and that was a mammoth release with 234 individual PRs by 56 contributors. Four of them completely new, but it also was that large because there were two more days on the release.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>It wasn&#8217;t released on a Wednesday, it was released on a Friday of last week. Let&#8217;s head into it. </strong>Enhancements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>First things, all kind of animation changes that I clustered together. It makes it a little bit easier that, that&#8217;s animation, it&#8217;s not very distracting animation. It&#8217;s more like a feedback animation. It adjusts the frame, it animates the radios on the frame, it improves the header animation. The animation for opening and closing the editor right-side bar, the insert and List View panels. This is more like when you move through the editor, you get feedback on where you are and where you go. I think those are really good features. They&#8217;re mostly invisible, but you&#8217;re just going to feel them, that it&#8217;s nice out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> They&#8217;re small, tiny changes that make a big difference when they&#8217;re all grouped together, especially, just makes everything feel a little bit nicer to use. Next up, we&#8217;ve got using the grid layout by default on the templates in template parts view. Again, this is related to the DataViews work, I think. The grid makes more sense because they&#8217;re more visual.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Template parts and templates are so visual. In their nature though, it&#8217;s good to see them, even if it&#8217;s only a tiny grid layout card, but it helps you navigate them without. You see them all in one scroll and then you can navigate to the one that you wanted to go to. Template parts are now patterns, so if you&#8217;re looking for your template parts, look on the patterns because there&#8217;s a big similarity between what patterns are sync patterns and template parts. They&#8217;re mostly all reusable things that can be, and so they&#8217;re clustered under the Patterns section. There is a simplified template reset language that kind of goes with 18.1 modal probably on resetting template changes customizations. What else?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> There&#8217;s also related to what you were just saying about template parts I think in the Patterns, we now have an author field in that view.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You can filter by, is it a template part or is it coming from the theme, or is it coming from the user and which user? It&#8217;s definitely helpful to navigate the whole thing and filter it when you have many, many template parts on the page. Yeah, so good, thank you. Then the editor, also in those layouts, you see in the editor now the word count and reading time in the post card, it&#8217;s not in the post, it&#8217;s more in the pages view, not in the post view, but you see them on the left-hand side in your screen. In the single Meta page screen. We need to get them all those names in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> I think it&#8217;s related to, because we have that information is surfaced within the editor when you&#8217;re browsing templates, and so I think we&#8217;re trying to align the data that surfaced in both areas so it&#8217;s more familiar and not confusing. There&#8217;s some data that appears here and different data that appears when you are editing the post. We&#8217;re trying to align them to reduce confusion.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s good to have that information right there with a page metadata here, a template. Then the next feature is that the template preview is now available in the post editor for non-administrators, because non-administrators also can change the templates, so now they can see the preview. I think that&#8217;s in the sidebar. When you&#8217;re editing a post or a page, in the sidebar, you can switch out the template. To know which template you use, you need to see what it is, so you get a preview of the templates that you can search for or look at before you switch them out. That&#8217;s definitely a good way to help content creators to do the right thing there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> The publish flow has also been updated, so this is related to published status label.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, it makes it clearer what the state of a post.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> This is on the post summary panel. It shows you, you might have noticed that when you use the Gutenberg plugin, that the featured image in some of the other data is now in a so-called summary panel on the post were the former called document settings. There, you can also see what nature it is. Is it a draft, is it a published one or not? Then you see the featured image and also the template and the URL and when it&#8217;s published and all that. That is now much clearer what status your post is about. Well, the page,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> The next thing is the Patterns page has now edit and view revision actions to the parts. Template parts now also surface the revisions in the editor, so you can see what&#8217;s changed here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> In the three-dots menu, I think we mentioned that similar to the title change that&#8217;s been surfaced, so these are new options in that three-dot menu for editing and viewing the revisions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> The resetting, you can also reset it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Reset, yeah, and delete.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Then the Site Editor now also supports startup patterns. It did for the page view, when you go through the WP Admin and to create a new page, it showed you already startup patterns when they came in with a theme, but the Site Editor page management system didn&#8217;t have that yet. This is just creating feature parity between the two views, the startup patterns, so you can select different page layouts, and you don&#8217;t have to start from a blank page which a lot of people have anxiety about. You can start about, so you see, okay, this is my header section, my middle section, and my additional service section or whatever is in the startup pattern. Full-page layouts can be done, can be surfaced through the theme, and now you have them inside editor as well. Cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> The next one we&#8217;ve got is we&#8217;ve improved the override indication for editable blocks in synced patterns. This is if you&#8217;ve inserted a synced pattern somewhere. Then when you&#8217;re looking around to edit things, things will be generally highlighted. There&#8217;ll be an outline around the block that can be edited. This update removes the outline that highlights things that can be edited. It removes it from things that can&#8217;t be edited in a synced pattern. Again, it&#8217;s kind just like a quality of life or UX improvement that feels, or maybe looks small, it makes everything feel a lot more easy to understand immediately.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It takes the mystery out of it. You don&#8217;t have to click around and say, can I? Can I do? The next thing is in the zoom out mode, there&#8217;s an introduction of section containers where you can assemble patterns into sections and then zoom out or see them in the zoom out mode. There&#8217;s much work being done in creating sections that can be styled and all that. Well, that was a PR that went through multiple changes. Well, it started in February and has just been merged, and it&#8217;s April, so it took about two months to get through this. You were saying?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Sorry. I was going to say, I think it&#8217;s related to some of the 6.6 changes, especially some of the things that we talked about in the recent Hallway Hangout. I think this is like some groundwork for section styling and being able to style parts of either patterns pages or entire themes, rather than thinking you might have to apply something to everything. You can now break it down into sections.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Cool. We will have a link to the Hallway Hangout that you just mentioned. That was what&#8217;s coming to 6.6, but we&#8217;re going to briefly talk about it as well and have the show notes, of course, have a link to it. The next two are DataViews changes. Again, there&#8217;s a lot of work being done, so it&#8217;s really hard to keep up, but every time you open up the Gutenberg Site Editor in the Gutenberg plugin, it has little changes in there. One is that you can now display fields as a batch in the grid layout. Then you can make checks, boxes and actions visible on touch devices, which actually is really helpful when you&#8217;re on a tablet or on mobile. There is also an experiment out of custom views. I&#8217;m not quite sure what that entails, but I&#8217;m going to look at it real quick. Do you have anything to add to that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> I think when I was reading this before, I think this is because the DataViews work is now not experimental, it&#8217;s moving the custom DataViews into an experiment. Rather than all the DataViews being an experiment, it&#8217;s just moving this single part of it, the custom DataViews as being experimental. You have to enable it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Is that the beginning of making DataViews a little bit extensible and you can create custom views or is that not that part?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> I think it is. It&#8217;s like when you create your own reports in data reporting tools and stuff like that, you can create your own view for, well, I&#8217;ve seen the demo for creating your own view for pages, but I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ll have many others. Again, it just gives users a little bit more control. It makes things feel more professional as well, because you can give it specific names rather than it all sounding very specific WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> The same.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, the same, basically from the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I think it comes with a work for custom post types as well. If you need custom post types, custom fields, that&#8217;s all that whole soup of complexity and extensibility that comes with it. This is good that there&#8217;s already some work being done on that part. Because we already get some questions about extensibility of the DataViews use, and people who have done this with WP Admin are keen to see how they can work with the new components in the DataViews. This is definitely a good thing to start out with that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then there were some changes for the layout pieces of the Site Editor. It added the row control for grid layouts in manual mode, which is good. It needs some testing and some feedback. You can also now, and this is what a lot of people are waiting for, is applying negative margins. We talked about it before, I think here on the podcast, but applying negative margin was something that a lot of people were waiting for, doing it in UI. It was always possible through theme JSON, but now there&#8217;s some UI or some settings that you can do in the sidebar.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, and we&#8217;ve also reduced the specificity of the layout.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That&#8217;s why I leave it to you. I can&#8217;t pronounce that word. Specificity, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Again, it makes it hopefully easier for themers or anyone interacting with CSS. It makes it much easier rather than unexpectedly being overridden by CSS from Gutenberg. This change will hopefully make that a lot easier. There&#8217;s some changes like we&#8217;ve wrapped existing styles in a ware block, so which makes them less specific. I believe the semantic class names have been improved as well, but I think I might be jumping into a different PR there, but hopefully, it all collectively makes styling things much easier for Gutenberg.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I think the semantic thing with just an 18.3. Yeah, it&#8217;s coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, we talked about this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No problem to mention it here, it&#8217;s coming. To say it&#8217;s not the last that we work on it. Then for the Global Styles, we talked about the background image or mentioned it, now you can have a display of default background for the size value in the Global Styles. We have the background UI control labels that are changed and then you use text and button background color for color indicators. There&#8217;s a lot of things that improve handling background images in the Global Styles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Then this other one we&#8217;ve got for Global Styles is the color indicators now use the text and button background colors. I think this helps make the color palette selection clearer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s when you start variations, I think it helps. Again, it probably helps to see this visually in the PR. When you view browse styles in Global Styles panel, if a theme has multiple style variations, you&#8217;ll see a little, like a preview box that previews the typography, the background image, and then two other theme images, theme colors, sorry, from the color palette. This changes those two colors to use the text and button background colors. I think it just generally gives you a better idea of the variation color palette compared to previously. Another good improvement.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">APIs</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Especially, yeah. There are new APIs in 18.2, and they definitely need some testing because there&#8217;s now additional support for the plugin post status info in the slot for the Site Editor. Most of the changes are actually to give the plugin a more menu item for the API. Then what&#8217;s the other one? Plugin site, more menu item, that&#8217;s one. Then the other one is unify the plugin sidebar slot between the post and Site Editor. Because most of the time, you need the feature from a plugin in, in both. Because if it&#8217;s a plugin with blocks, blocks can be used in the Site Editor as well as in the post editor. It&#8217;s really beneficial to have those slots there. You could add as a plugin developer something into the post status info and you can create, so unify plugin, more menu item, you can create more menu items. I think some of the UIs, I feel that the Create Block Theme is actually using some of those new APIs already because it feels a little bit differently than before where you can open a menu and then have another slot and all that. Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, exactly. I think these are the API changes of bringing more parity to the, like you said, between the post and Site Editor. I think most of these changes are moving these APIs into the editor package. Instead of them being separated, they&#8217;re only included in one package, and then that makes it much easier for plugins to use.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Then they don&#8217;t have to include too many packages to use those. I think going through the create plugin GitHub repo might help quite a few plugin developers to find some solutions for their move away from the Meta boxes or the WP Admin setting pages into the editor. That&#8217;s a new avenue there. Maybe we need to do a Developer Hour on how did you do this? All right. I really like that, how this all comes together. You&#8217;re right, if you scroll further on the changelog, you get to the ad semantic classes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> I knew I&#8217;d seen it somewhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Then there were some changes on the interactivity API. You can now have multiple event handles for the data WP on directive. That is really helpful because you can have for different actions on a button, you can have different event handlers. That&#8217;s really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yeah, it is. The other one we&#8217;ve got is updating the query block to allow, oh, non-interactive blocks. Sorry, non-core. I&#8217;m missing a vital word. Non-core interactive block, so you can include any block. Any block that enables the interactivity. API can now be included in the query block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, yeah, that&#8217;s really helpful when you have custom post types with some interactions there. We love it. Cool. The interactivity API is another powerful feature that only in the next few months we&#8217;ll see really the extent of how powerful it actually is and what other people do with it. There have been quite a few Developer Hours with it. Some examples, there was a developer blog post about the introduction of the interactivity API. Earlier, or last month, there was a Developer Hours with creating blocks with the interactivity API with another real-world example. I know that Ryan Welcher is now working on his Twitch stream on doing a to-do app with the interactivity API, and this shaped up quite nicely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Part two, I think, happened this week. I will put all these interactivity API mentions into the show notes so you can look up about them, what happened in last month about that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in Active Development or Discussed &#8211; WordPress 6.6 Hallway Hangout</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This concludes our what&#8217;s released sections and we are really way into the hour, but I wanted to still talk with you, Sarah, about the Hallway Hangout on what&#8217;s next in Gutenberg. There was a demo time, I think it was an hour and a half, where product managers and designers came together and demoed how certain things are going to work and what they&#8217;re preparing for the 6.6 version that&#8217;s coming out. Beta will be June 4th and it will come out on July 8th. I think that&#8217;s the schedule. Of course, so then the last version of Gutenberg coming in, I think it&#8217;s 18.5. We are now 18.3 release candidate is out, so we are about three releases away from beta. Isn&#8217;t that scary?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s terrifying, and everything moves so fast. You think you&#8217;ve got a break, and you haven&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> What was the topic about, or what did we cover? What was covered in the Hallway Hangout? It was the data view efforts in the relationship with the admin redesign. I think that was a part of the extensibility there. I think the biggest piece is the overrides and sync pattern because that changed. It was slated for WordPress 6.5, but then got pulled after beta one when the flow was not as intuitive as one would&#8217;ve wanted. It&#8217;s a similar setup, so when you have a pattern that is synced, you can enable overwrites. What you also have to do is to give the overrides a name for each single override so people that use the pattern can see in the sidebar which are the things that you can override and can click on it. I think that is a very good demo to watch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ll share the summary of posts on make core in the show notes, and there were quite few smaller videos in there that show off some of the new features that are coming. You and I, we just talked about the zoomed-out view. There is some advanced content only editing in how that is handled. Then of course, another big feature is a grid layout support that&#8217;s coming and the pattern styles, which means that you have a section in a website that you can attach a style universally without having to style each additional block that&#8217;s in that section. Is that what I&#8217;m hearing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> Yes. Yeah, I think that&#8217;s right. Similar to how we can currently apply different style variations to an entire theme. This would allow you to apply style variations or any other kind of variation of global styles, I guess. I&#8217;m trying not to say style variations again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Lots of expectations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris: </em>Yeah, that&#8217;s right. It makes it much easier to get some more variety of styling, and means you don&#8217;t have to switch themes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I think that what I find how things are changed in the Global styles and if you needed it to be overall change for the whole site or do you want to just for this post and where those change is happening. There are attempts to find a way to clarify where things have been changed or where they&#8217;re styled, and so you can actually reverse some of the things. Revisions probably helped, certainly. The Hallway Hangout was quite interesting to see. Was there anything that stood out for you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> It&#8217;s hard to pick, actually. I think the DataViews work is really, really cool and really sets us up for the admin redesign work. It&#8217;s just really nice to see these fresh designs go into WordPress. I also really like anything to do with Patterns because I work with themes a lot, so all of that is super interesting and it&#8217;s giving users a lot more control and allowing different areas to be edited. Then some areas are locked down, just a lot more control is really, really good. Also, on the zoomed-out view, that content only editing view is very interesting too because I think it&#8217;s all in the name. It only allows you to edit the content rather than being distracted by editing all the other blocks that are surrounding the content. Again, really interesting stuff going on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It also helps the developers that do bespoke site to kind of put up some the guardrails more intuitively for the content creators and not just make it easy for them to create those. Yes, so definitely, dear listeners, if you only get one thing out of this hour of Gutenberg Changelog, follow up on the show notes and look at the summary of the Hallway Hangouts for what&#8217;s next in Gutenberg. Because it gives you a pretty good preview way ahead of time of what will come into WordPress 6.6, and there&#8217;s quite a lot that&#8217;s coming as you can hear. We are at the end of the show. Is there anything else you wanted to highlight before we close out that you didn&#8217;t get a chance to talk about it? Because it will be chopped up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Sarah Norris:</em> No, I think we talked about everything. Well, there&#8217;s always too much as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> We shouldn&#8217;t wait a month to catch up everybody up on the Gutenberg happenings. Before I end on the show, I wanted to remind everyone on the Developer Hours on alternatives from Meta boxes, May 14th. If you listen to this after May 14th, go to one of the last weekend editions on the Gutenberg Times and you&#8217;ll find the recording of that hour so you can follow up after the fact. I think it&#8217;s definitely also a video to watch.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right, as always, the show notes will be published on gutenbergtimes.com for the podcast. This is episode 99. If you have questions and suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For those who are still listening and haven&#8217;t switched off, we have episode 100 coming up, and it will be a special edition of the Gutenberg Times. I will talk with the agency that did the redesign of the NASA website, and we will talk about WordPress scales as well as implementation challenges and pathways to migrate content, decisions about how to decide on core blocks or custom blocks, and have a good time with the agency, the content creator, team members and developers on how they actually accomplish that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks, everybody, for listening, and I wish you a wonderful weekend, week, say goodbye, and yeah, till the next time.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 04 May 2024 11:13:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19:\"Gutenberg 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+0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"WPTavern: #118 – Nahuai Badiola on Digital Sustainability Across the Whole WordPress Project\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155606\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:108:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/118-nahuai-badiola-on-digital-sustainability-across-the-whole-wordpress-project\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43513:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley. Jukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, sustainability across the whole WordPress project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Nahuai Badiola Nahuai is a freelance WordPress developer, theme and plugin creator. He also writes WordPress code tutorials, and enjoys sharing everything he learns about web sustainability in his blog, podcast, and at WordPress events.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nahuai&#8217;s life took an unexpected turn one day when he attended a 10 minute lightning talk at a WordCamp. The content of that talk was web sustainability, and it profoundly changed his perspective on how we should view our use of the internet. Nahuai has since been a vocal advocate for sustainability within the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nahuai extensively researched website sustainability, and came across The Green Web Foundation, exploring the broader dimensions of sustainability beyond just environmental impacts. This passion not only led to the creation of the podcast series, SustainWP, which aims to elevate the discourse on digital sustainability, but also to exploring practical ways WordPress can contribute positively to our planet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, Nahuai and I discuss the nuances of the environmental impact of web development with a particular focus on WordPress. We discuss ideas like reducing code in plugins, and highlight the performance team&#8217;s effort to make WordPress more green.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The broader scope of sustainability, including economic and social pillars, is also on our agenda, underlining initiatives like sustainable contributor channels, and the intriguing potential of a plugin that helps reveal the environmental footprint of websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about sustainability within WordPress web development, and the community more broadly, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Nahuai Badiola.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast By Nahuai Badiola. Hello Nahuai.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:24] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Hello Nathan, and nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;re very, very welcome. I&#8217;m really happy to have you on today. We&#8217;re going to be talking a little bit about sustainability. I will let Nahuai explain what all of that means, in terms of your digital footprint, especially for your websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before we do that Nahuai, would you just spend a few moments telling us your biography, maybe your WordPress origin story, something along those lines, just so that we know a little bit about you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:51] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Good. Good. Yeah, I will do my best to, summarize it. So I will go to 2014. Okay, that was the first time I was starting building websites with WordPress. And back then I was still a neuroscientist, so I was following the researcher path. So I was doing my third postdoc in Italy, and I really enjoyed the research part.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I still do, I love researching things, but the researcher lifestyle, not that much. So at the end it&#8217;s a lot of time going to a workplace, and when you are a boss, or you are a researcher, you do a lot of paperwork, but a lot. And it was like, it doesn&#8217;t sound like the plan I want to do when I&#8217;m 40 or whatever when I arrive to that point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I started looking for options, as you can guess, after 15 years of, let&#8217;s say a specialization on neuroscience, it was like, what can I do? I always be very inclined to technology and the online stuff, so I always enjoyed that part, and I was lucky enough to find WordPress pretty early on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s say when I was saying, okay, maybe, I want to do something online. Maybe I want to become a freelance to have more freedom. You can laugh here if you want to because we know it&#8217;s not that easy. But I can say that I live much better right now than when I was a researcher, so it didn&#8217;t went that bad.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So in that moment, I started using it as a user, just building websites for me. The typical travel blog for my wife and these kind of things. I was enjoying this, that part. I was also enjoying tinkering with code. So I was enjoying modifying themes or creating small snippets, these kind of things. And the really nice thing about WordPress is that you have a ton of content online. So that&#8217;s really nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So another good thing is that there are cool podcasts about WordPress like this one. So I started to listen to them in English, but also in Spanish. And when I went back to Spain, where I&#8217;m from, if you didn&#8217;t notice my accent by now. I started going to meetups because I already heard about the community, Spanish community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Indeed, it&#8217;s a quite active, and vibrant community. So I start going. Then I start giving some talks and then going to WordCamps, some talks in WordCamps. And then I was already falling in love with WordPress community, so I also started organizing the meetup in my hometown, not hometown, but where I live now, Terrassa, near to Barcelona.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I was really into the community. I was really enjoying. I was pretty much going well business wise, let&#8217;s say. And there was a moment in, this is already 2019, so we move forward five years, I went to WordCamp Pontevedra, and there was a lightning talk, talking about the impact of internet in CO2 emissions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it was like, wait, what? And the idea is pretty straightforward. So we know that the internet is this cloud, this thing that we think is ethereal, and it&#8217;s run by rainbows and cats and, but it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s really run by coal mainly. So the idea is, internet are servers. Those servers need energy. And that energy is mainly still coming from fossil fuels. So that&#8217;s that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So everything you can do to reduce that footprint, it&#8217;s more than welcome. And in that moment, it was like, this was a quite obvious thing to think, but I didn&#8217;t think about it until I went to this talk. So that&#8217;s one of the realizations of the importance of going to this kind of events.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And sometimes you just stumble upon a talk that you say, okay. Indeed, since then I&#8217;ve been researching digital sustainability. I&#8217;ve been also talking about it, and for not making this journey too long, I will just move to the part when I met Hannah Smith, probably in another WordCamp, WordCamp Europe, Berlin, also the same year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know that I knew that she was already doing some research in digital sustainability. She was one of the, I don&#8217;t want to call it leader, but people that is sharing about it, and is good doing it. So I start talking with her. I just approach her and say, do you feel it&#8217;s okay if we talk online, of course, every month or every two weeks? And she was, let&#8217;s do this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, in that moment, that relationship went on. We talk mainly about digital sustainability. We really feel really close to our heart, that part. And thanks to that probably, I learn about the Green Web Foundation. This is a nonprofit, that is, they do a really cool things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You probably, if you heard it, you probably heard it because they have a directory of green hosting. So hostings that are using clean energy, let&#8217;s say. But they do much more things. One of the things they do is they have a fellowship. And that was when Hannah was part of the first cohort of the fellowship, and she did a really cool workshop. It&#8217;s called Doing the Donut. I will leave you the link so you can share it, but I don&#8217;t want to spend too much time here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just to say it was a brilliant workshop, interactive workshop I attended as a attendant. And the idea was to put into perspective the impact of digital. Things we do as business, as consumers, in the environmental, and the sociological, and the economic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that was one of the first approach of, okay, sustainability is maybe not only the environmental part, but there is also a social and economic part. So that was another aha moment, let&#8217;s say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think getting into the social and the economic part would interesting in a moment. But just for now, so 2014, the beginnings of this, but really the whole of your future really pivoted around a 10 minute lightning talk. You can imagine a scenario in which you just decided, I won&#8217;t go that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:26] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Skip it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, somebody said, let&#8217;s go get a coffee, and your life would be profoundly different. I often have conversations with people who turn up to a WordPress event, and they&#8217;re not really sure what it is that&#8217;s going to catch their attention. But there&#8217;s always something, whether it&#8217;s volunteering or the code or whatever it may be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But fascinating, just really interesting that 10 minute lightning talk led to such a profound change in your life. And the Green Web Foundation, and the fellowships, and all of that bound into it as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, okay, for those people who are listening, it may be that you have never connected the word sustainable, or sustainability, with the environment. So that&#8217;s I think one of the things that we want to drive home. Every time you hear that word in the WordPress landscape from now on, you are thinking about the environmental impact. But more broadly as well as we&#8217;ll get onto the social, and the economic impact.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now you&#8217;ve taken this to a really interesting new level as well because you like recording the audio and putting a podcast out. So I want to draw attention to everybody. Maybe if you are anywhere near a computer, just hit pause and go and search for SustainWP. It&#8217;s a podcast series, and I&#8217;m really, I&#8217;m just going to hand it over to you. What was the point of that podcast series?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:42] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> So linking to what I was saying about Hannah&#8217;s workshop. It was a brilliant way of putting together things that I didn&#8217;t thought about it before. So I really liked the philosophy of trying to be more aware in our space. So I say, okay, this is frame in detail, digital sustainability as a whole.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wanted to move it to WordPress. Let&#8217;s say we do a workshop about it. The workshop thing didn&#8217;t went far, so I moved to the podcast format, and the idea was indeed the sustainability piece, a limited podcast series. So it&#8217;s nine episodes, and the idea is to see the different parts in monographic episodes, let&#8217;s say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first one is like an introduction of what are you going to find there. But then I move forward and explain what are the three pillars of sustainability, as you say, the environmental, the economical, and the social. But I don&#8217;t do it alone, because that would be not that much interesting. But I invited too, 13 guests. Brilliant people from WordPress community, and also from the digital sustainability, let&#8217;s call them again, leaders or thought leaders.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So at the end, you can hear pretty much the ideas of every one of them in the different topics. So you are not going to listen to a whole interview, but I will extract snippets of audio, give it context, and put it and wrap it in every episode. That&#8217;s a lot of work, by the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So thanks again to the Green Web Foundation, because I was able to do it thanks to the Green Web Foundation Fellowship that I was awarded in the second cohort. So that&#8217;s why I could do this more refined format, let&#8217;s say. Just to explain that is a different format.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Just to interrupt there, I think podcasting, it really hadn&#8217;t occurred to me that podcasting as a distribution medium is actually fairly sustainable. Video, it consumes a lot of resources. If you begin playing that then there&#8217;s megabytes and megabytes of data flowing around.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:46] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, the website is quite low carbon. Also, another cool thing about podcasting, feed, it&#8217;s a feed. That&#8217;s a really nice thing in sustainability. The social part is also like, it&#8217;s accessible to everyone. You have to be married to any platform. You can listen in the web, in your podcatcher. That&#8217;s another really cool thing about podcasting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the end is, we talk about the three pillars in sustainability and how they understand them. So I think that it was really interesting for me. I hope more people find it interesting. And then we took these three lenses and talk about how we can improve WordPress, in an events level, because we meet quite a lot, and we like to meet. It&#8217;s brilliant we meet. I already explained that I have a lot of good things from those meetings. But maybe we can meet in a more sustainable way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the other part is about the CMS, how we can do the CMS, let&#8217;s say more sustainable. This part is, the environmental part is very important because WordPress is installed in millions of installations. So everything that we can improve performance wise. And here, I want to give a great kudos to the Performance Team, because they are doing brilliant work here. A lot of cool improvements are coming to WordPress. Lazy load, all the assets that are loaded, only if the block is there. Brilliant stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the formats, also the WebP. Brilliant stuff. But also we have, since it&#8217;s an open source project, we also have the longevity part there. Because, this is run by people that is put in there voluntarily, or maybe sponsored by some companies. But that part is also really important. How we can keep this project ongoing for a lot of years, because I think that it can. So, we also tackle those topics, and that&#8217;s the part that is more socioeconomic. We talk about Five for the Future project and other stuff. And I think there were a lot of interesting ideas and discussions about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I just ask a quick question? Well, one question and then one observation. The first one is, you mentioned a few times the three pillars. Just to cement into everybody&#8217;s heads, would I be right in saying that&#8217;s environment, social, and economic? Are they the pillars? Okay. So just wanted spell that one out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The second thing, which is an observation, is, yeah, it really hadn&#8217;t occurred to me quite so profoundly until you just said it, that if you can modify the CMS, which powers 43% of the web, in one stroke, you are doing so much good. If you can cut out, I don&#8217;t know, 10 kilobytes, or a hundred kilobytes, or a megabyte from every single WordPress website, millions and millions of times over, you&#8217;re doing profoundly good work, by doing one thing. And that really hadn&#8217;t hit home for reasons I can&#8217;t explain, but okay, that&#8217;s really amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:51] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> I want to mention one example. That one was eyeopening for me, let&#8217;s say. It was when Danny van Kooten share the impact it has to remove, I think it was 20 kilobytes of JavaScript from one of his plugins. I think it was MailChimp for WooCommerce. And since that plugin was I installed in, I think, 2 million WordPress or something like that, it was tons of CO2 he was reducing. Just because of those 20 kilobytes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So 20 kilobytes from his plugin, which by the sounds of it, has an enormous user base. 20 kilobytes spread across those 2 million websites, and I guess he&#8217;s doing some analysis of how many times his plugin is loaded and all of that, tons.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:40] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, tons. I don&#8217;t remember. And I think he also put it in car travel or something like that. It was like a lot of car travel, or a lot of kilometers done in car, and it was like, this is huge. So that was a popular plugin. Imagine what can be done in Core that can have potentially even more impact. And indeed, I think they are already doing it somehow in Performance Team. So, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s interesting that the Performance Team, let me just rewind a bit. So the WordPress Performance Team has been going for, let&#8217;s go for about two years, something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:13] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Two or three, I think, yep.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nahuai&#8217;s holding up three fingers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:17] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah. because they started as part of Core, but now are established, so that&#8217;s why maybe we have two dates, but yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so three years and in that time, the messaging that seems to come out of that team, not from the team, but the interpretation I often have in my head is how much quicker it&#8217;s making WordPress. Because you always think of performance, oh, it&#8217;s going faster. And of course that&#8217;s true, and that&#8217;s great, but an intended consequence I guess, is this environmental, sustainable side of the performance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And again, I hadn&#8217;t really joined the dots there. And if you are saying that 20 kilobytes, from a 2 million install plugin means tons of CO2. If we take megabytes out of the core of WordPress, that must be hundreds and hundreds of tons of CO2. I have no intuition as to what that number would be, but I&#8217;m guessing it would orders of magnitude more. Again, just another profound realization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:21] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> So, this team was already ongoing for let&#8217;s say two, three years, and they are doing brilliant stuff. Again, I can&#8217;t praise enough for their work. But, in parallel to this SustainWP project I was doing, and putting the dots together and seeing the sustainability not only as an environmental part, but also economic and social part. In parallel, we were creating a first sustainability initiative inside WordPress. And the last year in WordCamp Europe in Athens, we became an official team, after doing a lot of, all the steps that are needed to be a, an official team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t want to spend too much time on the process because I don&#8217;t want to take too much time. I want to tackle so many things. So I will encourage you if you&#8217;re interested on understanding better how the team was created. We have a dedicated episode in SustainWP, is the number seven. And there you can see how the evolution went.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m just to interrupt there and tell the listener the URL, because many people listening to this and won&#8217;t be desk or anything, so let&#8217;s put it in your head. It&#8217;s sustainwp.com. No hyphens or anything. Just sustainwp.com. And then if you go down to episode seven, it&#8217;s called WordPress Sustainability Team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you can short circuit by listening to that episode. It seems to run to just under an hour. Sorry, carry on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:45] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> No, no, that was nice. Yeah, that&#8217;s, we have to remember this is audio and it&#8217;s always good to do this kind of stuff and say, hey, remember. So you will have it also in the show notes, but if you are interested.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So at the end we&#8217;ve been doing, first in the initiative and now as an official team. We&#8217;ve been meeting in Slack every week, and we&#8217;ve been talking about how we can do the project more sustainable in all the areas. And one of the two projects that we have right now ongoing, and I will mention briefly in case you want to join us, because we are open to always to have new contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of them is the handbook that is aiming to create a more sustainable events. So as I say, we meet a lot, in meetups, WordCamps, and especially in the flagship WordCamps. A lot of stuff is moving around. So the idea is since the organizers we have to remember are volunteers, so they are not professional people that are usually creating these kind of events.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They do what they can with the time they have. So the main idea is to put together a lot of ideas that could improve the sustainability of the event in a list. So they can go there and say, okay, I would like to do a bit more sustainable event. What can I do? Can I reduce the swag? That could be an option.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Leaving the option to the user in the registration if they want to have a T-shirt, if they want to have a lanyard even, because I have already enough lanyards. So this kind of small things that maybe if we start to standardize it. Maybe we don&#8217;t need to create so much swag for the welcome pack, let&#8217;s say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then we also have some ideas from sponsors. Indeed, some of the sponsors came to WordCamp Europe contributor day and they were willing to understand how they can do a bit better in that way. So some of them are already trying to do better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another big part could be promoting the traveling. So traveling by train when it&#8217;s possible. And indeed in this years WordCamp Europe, in Torino, there is a dedicated page where there is information about the trains you can take if you are in Europe.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So just putting easier to organizers to serve those resources. And then make it easier to the people that is attending to have maybe a more sustainable habits when they are going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess many of us have been to WordPress events, and obviously a lot of people have spent time organizing it. But like you say, it&#8217;s run by volunteers and it may well be that you just don&#8217;t have the ideas that would be contained in the handbook.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;ll link to the handbook as well, so go through that list and maybe some of those, if you&#8217;re a Meetup organizer, or if you&#8217;re a Word camp organizer, some of those things you could tick off. That&#8217;s, yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:44] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> That&#8217;s still a draft, but yeah, we will like to have it in a more definitive format by the WordCamp Europe this year in Torino. So hopefully we have it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> One other quick thing, you mentioned contributor day. If you don&#8217;t know what that is, the contributor day is often attached to the beginning or the end of a WordPress event. And the idea is that you show up and you put yourself onto a table, and that table has a theme, and you work on that thing for the duration of that day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it may be photography, it may be core, it may be marketing. So is there a sustainable or a sustainability table? Is that often the case now? If you were to go to one of the WordCamps, maybe one of the larger ones, is that a part of the agenda to get a sustainability table?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:25] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, indeed. Last year we had the first one in Europe, let&#8217;s say in the first one in a flagship WordCamp. Because we already did in Barcelona and Pontevedra. This year is going to be also a contributor day with sustainability table in Torino. The idea is to be one of the tables that is usually set up for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, we need someone that is coming to the meeting somehow, and they know more or less what are we working on? But yeah, yeah. The idea is to spread and have it as one of the, since we are already an official team, if in a WordCamp there is someone that is working in something that we are doing in a sustainability team, they are welcome to host the sustainability table.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So call to action, dear listener. If are heading to a WordCamp event, particularly Torina, in the year 2024, WordCamp Europe, and you&#8217;re not sure where to put yourself for the contributor day, now you&#8217;ve got an option.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:19] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Indeed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We&#8217;ll, provide links in the show notes, but maybe we&#8217;ll get some contact details for Nahuai as well, anyway. Brilliant, carry on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:26] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, so we can link it with this. If the event handbook doesn&#8217;t sound appealing enough to come to the contributor day, or to come to the Slack meeting, we are also doing, creating a plugin that aims to surface some information about the impact, environmental impact. Of the website, probably in the WP admin, or site health, or we have to think where to put it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But at the end, the idea would be, the initial idea was to use some of the APIs that are there to surface how much CO2 is emitting your website, okay. Giving you some context. You are in the 10% dirtiest websites. Or, you are in the 15% more cleaner. So something like that. And also some resources to understand better what that means, because maybe that&#8217;s a new information for you, like it was for me in 2019.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the idea is to raise awareness. So the people that are using WordPress, they see that and if they are intrigued and they want to know more about it, they can understand better. And the following idea would be they take actions to improve that, okay. But that would be the next step.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So the plugin not only will surface where you stand in the panoply of websites, you know you&#8217;re in the top 10% in terms of sustainability, or you&#8217;re in the bottom 10%. But also in the future you&#8217;ll be providing guidance, things that you can do to mitigate the things that we have flagged. Okay, that&#8217;s fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:58] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> That will probably be another plugin because, and I will explain why we want to keep really simple, the one that is surfacing information about the environmental impact. Indeed, we are now thinking that maybe using CO2, calculating the CO2, it requires to do calls to a third party API, that we don&#8217;t want to do it, or include the library. And we don&#8217;t want to do it because the aim is to build a feature plugin that can go inside core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it has to be really lean, and clean, and comply with everything that is needed to be in core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Including this into core. Sorry, I&#8217;m interrupting alot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:41] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah. no, that&#8217;s so nice because you&#8217;re excited with it. So I think this would be huge if we manage to do it. And we are taking steps slowly because of this. Because the aim is to be in core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If we manage to put some context there, maybe, I don&#8217;t know if CO2, but maybe it&#8217;s performance metric, and creating some kind of rating that also you can understand. So from A to F or whatever we decide. So the user can see a red F or a green A, and they say what that&#8217;s mean. And probably we have to put some links to understand better the context.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But having that in core, I think it&#8217;s a brilliant way of raising awareness about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. One of the things that&#8217;s coming into my mind is that, obviously if you&#8217;re a WordPress professional, if you&#8217;re a web developer, I imagine you&#8217;ve scratched the surface on this topic a little bit. You&#8217;ve probably had at least some thought that, boy, we produce a lot of carbon with this industry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the people who are managing the websites, the people who are in effect, the clients who have had the website built for them, who don&#8217;t really have the technical expertise, maybe they are content creators, or writers, or journalists or whatever it may be. It&#8217;s an interesting thing to present them with as well to surface in their mind, boy, my website, yes, of course. It&#8217;s running on a computer and it&#8217;s producing carbon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that&#8217;s also quite interesting, because the audience for that is much bigger than the developer audience. And so reaching out to those people and just injecting that thought. Okay, your website has an impact. That&#8217;s really profound as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:18] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah. And as it was for me, the environmental part and the CO2 part, in SustainWP we talk about the carbon tunnel vision that we usually have in sustainability. That means that in a lot of places we equate CO2 to sustainability. And that&#8217;s just one part, but is one of the parts that is easier to understand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We play so much with it. And I usually refer it as a Trojan horse. So you start talking about CO2, and the impact in the environmental part, and you gather some interest, and maybe you are, if you are good enough, you can learn them to understand that sustainability is not only environmental, and there are more things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And talking about this, one of the things that the team would like to improve is what I was mentioning before about the longevity of the project. Right now there are a lot of contributors, some of them are sponsored, which is brilliant, but others are not. The ones that are not sponsored, sometimes it&#8217;s okay for them because they are putting, let&#8217;s say two hours a week, and they are fine because they have all their stuff. But there is people putting more time than that, and probably it&#8217;s not sustainable in time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, one of the aims, and one thing that was already talking in the Community Summit last summer, was to create what I call for a lack of a better term, like a portal where we can put the contributors that are doing active stuff on the project, and are not sponsored, of course. And companies that are open to sponsor people that are contributing to the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You are acting a bit like a go-between to connect people who perhaps don&#8217;t have the expertise to get involved with this, but they have the finance. They have the capacity to put somebody in that chair, and they can pay them for their time and make that worthwhile. Okay. That&#8217;s interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:22] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, so here probably one of the things that as a first idea or product that can go there. It would not contain the financial part, because that&#8217;s really tricky. It would be maybe just a way to contact. It&#8217;s a portal where you can connect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. You are making the introductions. Right, I get it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:41] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> And then they go wherever they want. They need to go to do the financial part. Because the financial part is quite tricky. And indeed there is already something put in place that is called WordPress collective community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, the WPCC. Yeah, I&#8217;ll link to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:59] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Exactly. And that&#8217;s an initiative that it&#8217;s ongoing. I think at least they already managed to sponsor, I think a couple of people. Basically you can put some money there as individual, but also any company can put some money there to sponsor people that is contributing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in this portal idea thing would be to have like a, a directory of people that is doing active things. And for that, maybe it&#8217;s going to be helpful, the metric dashboard, project that is starting. Meaning that probably the companies that want to put some money in someone, they want to see a specifics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So this person is doing, let&#8217;s say, five hours in community team, and is doing this specific task. So they know that they are putting the money there. Or let&#8217;s say in plugins, review or in theme review, or whatever, team it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think there is a lot of potential there. I think the people in Five for the Future, are willing to improve some of the system that is there. Because right now, Five for the Future is a brilliant project, but I have the feeling that it&#8217;s mainly big companies sponsoring full-time to contributors, which is brilliant. And that&#8217;s why the pace of WordPress evolution is that fast. Because Automattic and other big companies are putting a lot of people working on there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there is, from my point of view, a lack of freelance that are putting time to the project. And they are not able to gain any sponsor, because maybe it&#8217;s tricky. It&#8217;s more tricky to sponsor part-time, someone, instead of having an employee just donated to. So I think we can improve some things there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m just talking about the idea, because I know there is interest in a lot of sense, and we just need to find the way of moving it forward. But I think it would be really beneficial if we can close that gap between contributors that are already doing things, and companies that are, they are understand they have to do something, give something back, or they want to have some cool people related with their brands, let&#8217;s say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What&#8217;s fascinating here is, there&#8217;s obviously the code side of things. Reducing the impact of the footprint that WordPress creates. But it also appears from everything that you&#8217;ve just said, that if code is not your thing, the sustainability team, they need your help in all sorts of other ways. Like trying to figure out how to marry up sponsors with contributors, freelancers with sponsors, and so on and so forth, how to actually shape that team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s very meta that, isn&#8217;t it? You want people on the team to help you figure out what the team will be doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, that&#8217;s perfect. So my guess is that you are, you have your doors wide open. You are hoping that people will listen to this and will come knock on your door, find it wide open, step inside. So where do we go? Where&#8217;s the best place, best place or places to find out more about the sustainability initiatives in WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:04] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, I think probably it&#8217;s coming to the weekly meetings. Probably we are going to move it to every two weeks, so we can have time to do more stuff between the meetings. We will leave the link of the Slack channel. It&#8217;s easy, we are the sustainability channel. So I think you can come and you can join some of the ideas that are going. You can drop your idea if you are willing to move it forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So one of the posts I wrote in the Green Web Foundation Fellowship, during the fellowship, it was sustainability as an umbrella term, because I really think, and during this journey, I saw it even more clear, that sustainability has a lot of things that are, they can be under it. So that&#8217;s one of the benefits of having this team, and we can collaborate with performance. Indeed for the plugin that we were talking before, probably it makes sense, a lot of sense to collaborate with them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there is also parts of inclusivity and making the events, not only more sustainable in a environmental way, but also inclusive. And that&#8217;s why we also want to have a close relationship with the DEIB working group. I think you already talk with Birgit, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there are a lot of things that maybe we don&#8217;t have to do everything under our team, but I feel we really need to collaborate well, or have good relationship with other working groups or with other teams. And yeah, it&#8217;s a really cool place to come, and drop your idea or join forces with the things that we are already doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> As with every episode, everything that Nahuai has mentioned, I will try to track it down, or probably Nahuai&#8217;s going to drop the links into our shared show notes. But everything that we&#8217;ve mentioned, I will endeavor to get on the WP Tavern website. So if you go to wptavern.com/podcast, search for this episode, and you&#8217;ll be able to see the show notes there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s the topic of our time this, isn&#8217;t it really. There are a few things which matter, and then there are some things which matter a lot, and this really does feel like it goes into the, this matters a lot, category. If somebody wanted to reach out to you just to bat some ideas around with you personally, that might be a good way in. Where can we get in touch with you personally?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:27] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Yeah, probably all the workers related stuff, Slack is a good place. If you are not there, you will probably join earlier or later. But if you don&#8217;t want to start there, you can find me also in Mastodon. I&#8217;m on Twitter, not very active, but I still have the account. And my website, and my mail. My mail is where I manage everything, so you can also find it. Even if it&#8217;s, if the website is in Spanish, you can go to contact and just write me something and, no problem. And yeah, I think that&#8217;s pretty much it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I feel like, as I say, sustainability is so many things and we had limited time. I think we are doing good job putting everything together. If you really want to hear really cool ideas and some debates about it, we already did the plaque of SustainWP, but I really think that they were brilliant, the, guests. And if you&#8217;re interested in the topic, I think you can enjoy that podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Perfect. There&#8217;s nine episodes over there. It just remains for me to say a great big thank you. It&#8217;s amazing to hear somebody that&#8217;s quite so passionate about this subject.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hopefully you&#8217;ll have driven some engagement in your direction. Nahuai thank you so much for chatting to me on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:40] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Thank you Nathan, and let&#8217;s hope somebody is the tipping point where they discovered this link as that talk in Ponte Vedra was for me, and they just start being interested in the topic. Thanks a lot Nathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I have my fingers and my toes all crossed. Thanks so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:56] <strong>Nahuai Badiola:</strong> Bye bye.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://nbadiola.com/\">Nahuai Badiola</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nahuai is a freelance WordPress developer, theme, and plugin creator. He also writes WordPress code tutorials and enjoys sharing everything he learns about web sustainability in his blog, podcast, and at WordPress events.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nahuai’s life took an unexpected turn one day when he attended a 10-minute lightning talk at a WordCamp. The content of that talk was web sustainability and it profoundly changed his perspective on how we should view our use of the internet. Nahuai has since been a vocal advocate for sustainability within the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nahuai extensively researched website sustainability and came across the Green Web Foundation, exploring the broader dimensions of sustainability beyond just environmental impacts. This passion not only led to the creation of the podcast series SustainWP, which aims to elevate the discourse on digital sustainability, but also to exploring practical ways WordPress can contribute positively to our planet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, Nahuai and I discuss the nuances of the environmental impact of web development with a particular focus on WordPress. We discuss ideas like reducing code in plugins, and highlight the Performance Team&#8217;s efforts to make WordPress more green.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The broader scope of sustainability, including economic and social pillars, is also on our agenda, underlining initiatives like sustainable contributor channels and the intriguing potential of a plugin that helps reveal the environmental footprint of websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about sustainability within WordPress web development, and the community more broadly, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://pontevedra.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp Pontevedra</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2019/speaker/hannah-smith/\">Hannah Smith&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp Europe 2019</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/\">The Green Web Foundation</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/fellowships/\">The Green Web Foundation Fellowships</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://sustainwp.com/\">SustainWP Podcast</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/handbook/about-the-team/\">WordPress Performance Team</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/\">Five for the Future</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.dannyvankooten.com/blog/2020/website-carbon-emissions/\">CO2 emissions on the web</a> by Danny van Kooten</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/sustainability/handbook/\">WordPress Sustainability Team Handbook</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/summit/\">WordPress Community Summit</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.thewpcommunitycollective.com/\">WordPress Community Collective</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/sustainability/\">Sustainability Slack Channel</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://w3c.github.io/sustyweb/\">Web Sustainability Guidelines (WSG) 1.0</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://doingthedoughnut.tec\">Doing the Doughnut Tech website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uYaGP876SpQ_GLTJRFuI2YFbSh7M9Ku6MizDhHpabgs/edit#heading=h.nllhqa6j8gqd\">Sustainability Team Events Handbook</a> (Google Doc)</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://nbadiola.com/\">Nahuai&#8217;s website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mastodon.social/@nahuai\">Nahuai on Mastodon</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/nahuaibadiola\">Nahuai on X</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 01 May 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"Do The Woo Community: Pricing Services for WordPress and Woo with Brian Rotsztein\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83311\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://dothewoo.io/pricing-services-for-wordpress-and-woo-with-brian-rotsztein/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"Listen in for tips on pricing for freelancers and small agencies when it comes to WooCommerce and WordPress services.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 01 May 2024 09:56:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"HeroPress: Paving my way in WordPress through Communities\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=6748\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:166:\"https://heropress.com/essays/paving-my-way-in-wordpress-through-communities/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=paving-my-way-in-wordpress-through-communities\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11481:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/043024-rtl-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Pull Quote: I started an online meetup for Arabic speakers across the world.\" />\nHere is Nada reading her own story aloud\n\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/feed/#arabic\">هذا المقال متاح باللغة العربية</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>In an unexpected twist, my life has led me on a path where I ended up working with WordPress almost every single day of my life…</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-beginning\">The Beginning…</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>My story begins in Istanbul in 2016, I haven’t heard of WordPress then except in one encounter with a friend who used to be a renowned journalist and quit his job, learnt how to use WordPress, and became a full-time freelancer building and maintaining WordPress sites.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I graduated from the Faculty of Economics and Political Science and has worked most of my career then in PR and digital marketing roles where I had no contact or knowledge of WordPress. When I moved to Istanbul I interviewed and got a job at an advertising agency and part of my job requirement was to create an editorial calendar, write and optimize blogs for GoDaddy.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This was my first time to run an editorial calendar myself, I enjoy creative writing and had to write countless papers for university but haven’t done it professionally. I was very excited about the opportunity to learn something new. I remember very well watching hours and hours of search engine optimization videos and thinking to myself: This feels so hard, almost impossible, little did I know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I spent about 3 years managing the blog as part of my work and using WordPress every day, I slowly learnt how to navigate the plugins, do SEO and even launched the Arabic blog in 2019.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I must say that I enjoyed it a lot and was especially happy when I got to see the results of the hard work that was put in to maintain the blog.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-middle\">The Middle…</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A few years later I moved to GoDaddy as a marketing manager and trained a team to be responsible of the blog and I moved to a different role with different responsibilities. A couple of years pass, and I move to a new team where I’m responsible for the growth of some products and WordPress was a part of it… we meet again!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This time I was working with WordPress with a different angle and perspective, not only as a user but looking at the marketing and community side of it, and this is when I heard about meetups and WordCamps.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My dear friend Maja Loncar was the first one to introduce me to meetups and WordCamps and explained how WordPress is more than a CMS, it’s a community. Early 2023, I was asked to be part of the GoDaddy team going to WordCamp Asia 2023, and I must admit I was anxious.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had been to many events before that but nothing like this one, and I started prepping for my first ever contributor’s day and WordCamp in Thailand.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I remember Adam Warner’s reassuring words to me before the event which has helped me feel confident and at ease. I must say I had a wonderful time in Thailand, the community was very welcoming, and I got to meet a lot of wonderful people.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My first contribution was to the training team, and at that time I realized that there is no training material in Arabic, which made me think about meetups and WordPress communities for Arabic speakers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Back in Dubai, I started looking up meetups in the Middle East, and started reaching out to the organizers in hopes to bring them back to life and help or co-organize if possible. I was met with disappointment at that time as most of these meetups weren’t active anymore (especially after COVID) and the organizers weren’t enthusiastic or were too busy. I remember speaking with Maja about this, and she said: what don’t you start one yourself? She explained to me the amount of effort that’ll need to be done and I thought about it. A few months later I started an online meetup for Arabic speakers across the world.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The meetup has been running for around a year now, and it’s been through ups and downs – this was also the title to my first talk in WordCamp Asia 2024 in Taiwan.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-story-doesn-t-end-here\">The story doesn’t end here…</h1>\n\n\n\n<p>Ever since my first WordCamp, I’ve been to 3 other WordCamps and attended several meetups and got to meet and have genuine friendships within the community and I was honored to be a speaker in WordCamp Asia 2024. My journey doesn’t end here, it’s just the beginning…</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h1 id=\"arabic\" class=\"kt-adv-heading6748_0a1131-22 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">كيف غيرت المجتمعات قصتي مع WordPress</h1>\n\n\n\nها هي ندى تقرأ قصتها بصوت عالٍ\n\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"kt-adv-heading6748_74de5b-0d wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><br />في تطور غير متوقع، قادتني حياتي إلى طريق انتهى بي الأمر بالعمل مع WordPress كل يوم تقريبًا من حياتي&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><br />البداية&#8230;<br />تبدأ قصتي في اسطنبول في عام 2016، ولم أسمع عن WordPress من قبل إلا من خلال لقاء أحد اصدقائي كان صحفيًا مشهورًا وترك وظيفته، وتعلم كيفية استخدام WordPress، وأصبح يعمل بدوام كامل كمستقل لبناء وصيانة مواقع WordPress.<br /><br />تخرجت من كلية الاقتصاد والعلوم السياسية وعملت معظم مسيرتي المهنية في العلاقات العامة والتسويق الرقمي حيث لم يكن لدي اتصال أو معرفة بـ WordPress. عندما انتقلت إلى اسطنبول، أجريت مقابلة وحصلت على وظيفة في وكالة إعلانات وكان جزء من متطلبات وظيفتي هو إنشاء تقويم تحريري وكتابة وتحسين المدونات لـ GoDaddy.<br />كانت هذه هي المرة الأولى التي أدير فيها تقويمًا تحريريًا بنفسي، أنا أستمتع بالكتابة الإبداعية واضطررت إلى كتابة عدد لا يحصى من الأبحاث اثناء دراستي في الجامعة، ولكني لم أفعل ذلك بشكل احترافي. كنت متحمسة جدًا لفرصة تعلم شيء جديد. أتذكر جيدًا مشاهدة ساعات وساعات من مقاطع فيديو عن تحسين محركات البحث وأفكر في نفسي: هذا شيء صعب للغاية، يكاد يكون مستحيلًا، لم أكن أعرف الكثير في هذا الوقت.<br />قضيت حوالي 3 سنوات في إدارة المدونة كجزء من عملي واستخدمت WordPress كل يوم، تعلمت ببطء ما هي الاضافات، والقيام بتحسين محركات البحث، وحتى ساعدت في إطلاق المدونة باللغة العربية في عام 2019.<br />يجب أن أقول إنني استمتعت بهذا العمل كثيرًا وكنت سعيدة بشكل خاص عندما رأيت نتائج العمل الشاق الذي تم بذله للحفاظ على المدونة.<br /><br />منتصف الحكاية&#8230;<br />بعد بضع سنوات انتقلت إلى GoDaddy كمدير تسويق ودربت فريقًا ليكون مسؤولاً عن المدونة وانتقلت إلى دور مختلف بمسؤوليات مختلفة. يمر عامان، وأنتقل إلى فريق جديد حيث أكون مسئولة عن نمو بعض المنتجات وكان WordPress جزءًا منها&#8230; ووردبريس نلتقي مرة أخرى!</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\">هذه المرة كنت أعمل مع WordPress بزاوية ومنظور مختلفين، ليس فقط كمستخدم، ولكن بالنظر إلى الجانب التسويقي والمجتمعي منه، وهذا عندما سمعت عن اللقاءات وWordCamps.<br />كانت صديقتي العزيزة مايا لوكنار أول من عرّفني على اللقاءات وWordCamps وشرحت لي كيف أن WordPress أكثر من مجرد CMS، إنه مجتمع. في أوائل عام 2023، طُلب مني أن أكون جزءًا من فريق GoDaddy الذي يذهب إلى WordCamp Asia 2023، ويجب أن أعترف أنني كنت قلقة.<br />لقد زرت العديد من الأحداث قبل ذلك، ولكن لا شيء مثل هذا الحدث، وبدأت في الاستعداد ليوم المساهم الأول على الإطلاق والWordCamp&nbsp; في تايلاند.<br />أتذكر كلمات آدم وارنر المطمئنة لي قبل الحدث والتي ساعدتني على الشعور بالثقة والراحة. يجب أن أقول إنني قضيت وقتًا رائعًا في تايلاند، وكان المجتمع مرحبًا جدًا، وقابلت الكثير من الأشخاص الرائعين.<br />كانت مساهمتي الأولى لفريق التدريب، وفي ذلك الوقت أدركت أنه لا توجد مواد تدريبية باللغة العربية، مما جعلني أفكر في اللقاءات ومجتمعات WordPress للمتحدثين باللغة العربية.<br />عندما عدت إلى دبي، بدأت في البحث عن لقاءات في الشرق الأوسط، وبدأت في التواصل مع المنظمين على أمل إعادة المجتمعات إلى الحياة والمساعدة أو المشاركة في التنظيم إن أمكن. وقوبلت بخيبة أمل في ذلك الوقت لأن معظم هذه اللقاءات لم تعد نشطة (خاصة بعد COVID) ولم يكن المنظمون متحمسين أو كانوا مشغولين للغاية. أتذكر أنني تحدثت مع مايا حول هذا الموضوع، فقالت: لما لا تبدأي به بنفسك؟ شرحت لي مقدار الجهد الذي يجب القيام به وفكرت في ذلك. بعد بضعة أشهر بدأت لقاء عبر الإنترنت للمتحدثين باللغة العربية في جميع أنحاء العالم.<br />بدأ اللقاء منذ حوالي عام، وقد مر بتقلبات &#8211; كان هذا أيضًا عنوان حديثي الأول في WordCamp Asia 2024 في تايوان.<br /><br />القصة لا تنتهي هنا&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\">منذ أول WordCamp لي، زرت ثلاثWordCamps أخرى وحضرت العديد من اللقاءات وحصلت على صداقات حقيقية داخل المجتمع وتشرفت بأن أكون متحدثة في WordCamp Asia 2024. رحلتي لا تنتهي هنا، إنها مجرد البداية&#8230;</p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/paving-my-way-in-wordpress-through-communities/\">Paving my way in WordPress through Communities</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 01 May 2024 04:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15:\"Nada Elsharkawy\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"BuddyPress: BuddyPress 12.4.1 Security Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://buddypress.org/?p=333913\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"https://buddypress.org/2024/05/buddypress-12-4-1-security-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2819:\"<p><a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.12.4.1.zip\">BuddyPress 12.4.1</a> is now available. This is a security release. <strong>All BuddyPress installations should be updated as soon as possible</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The 12.4.1 release addresses the following security issue:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>The dynamic Members, dynamic Friends &amp; dynamic Groups blocks were vulnerable to a Stored Cross-Site Scripting. Discovered by&nbsp;Wesley (wcraft) from the Wordfence organization.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>This vulnerability was impacting BuddyPress branches from 9.0 to 12.0. It was reported privately to the BuddyPress team, in accordance with&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/testing/reporting-security-vulnerabilities/\">WordPress’s security policies</a>. Our thanks to the reporter for practicing coordinated disclosure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For complete details, visit the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://codex.buddypress.org/releases/version-12-4-1/\">12.4.1 changelog</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-horizontal is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-1 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button is-style-outline\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-background-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.12.4.1.zip\">Get BuddyPress 12.4.1</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p>You can get the latest version by clicking on the above button, downloading it from the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/\">WordPress.org plugin directory</a>&nbsp;or checking it out from our&nbsp;<a href=\"https://buddypress.trac.wordpress.org/browser/branches/11.0\">Subversion repository.</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>If for a specific reason you can&#8217;t upgrade to 12.4.1, we have also ported the security fix to BuddyPress versions going all the way back to branch 9.0. Here&#8217;s the list of the available downloads for the corresponding tags, you can also find these links on our <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/advanced/\">WordPress.org Plugin Directory &#8220;Advanced&#8221; page:</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>If you are using BP <strong>9.x</strong> and can&#8217;t upgrade to 12.4.1, please upgrade to <a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.9.2.3.zip\">9.2.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you are using BP <strong>10.x</strong> and can&#8217;t upgrade to 12.4.1, please upgrade to <a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.10.6.3.zip\">10.6.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you are using BP <strong>11.x</strong> and can&#8217;t upgrade to 12.4.1, please upgrade to <a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.11.4.1.zip\">11.4.1</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 01 May 2024 00:33:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Mathieu Viet\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:101:\"Do The Woo Community: Empowering Diversity and Inclusion in WordPress and Beyond with Shanta Nathwani\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83283\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"https://dothewoo.io/empowering-diversity-and-inclusion-in-wordpress-and-beyond-with-shanta-nathwani/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:118:\"Shanta Nathwani and Birgit chat about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in the WordPress and tech community.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 30 Apr 2024 11:23:45 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:103:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 78: Guided Growth: Cultivating Contributors Through Mentorship\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17229\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:104:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/episode-78-guided-growth-cultivating-contributors-through-mentorship/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23886:\"<p>Explore the transformative world of the WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program with guest host Angela Jin and special guest and sponsored contributor Hari Shanker. Whether you&#8217;re a long-time WordPress enthusiast or new to the scene, this episode is packed with insights, stories, and tips to help you engage more deeply with one of the most passionate open source communities.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Guest host: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a><br />Guest speaker: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harishanker/\">Hari Shanker</a><br />Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br />Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br />Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/eidolonnight/\">Nicholas Garofalo</a><br />Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/5\">Five for the Future</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-day/contributor-working-group/contributor-mentorship-program-for-wordpress/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">About the Contributor Mentorship Program</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-day/contributor-working-group/contributor-mentorship-program-for-wordpress/contributor-mentorship-program-cohorts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Details of Mentorship Program Cohorts</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/04/08/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-2024-q1-cohort-graduates/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Mentorship Program Cohort 2 Graduation Post</a> &#8211; Express interest in the next cohort by&nbsp;leaving comment or sending a message to @harishanker in the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/chat/\">Making WordPress Slack</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2024/04/brainstorming-a-support-team-contributor-ladder/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Brainstorming a Support Team Contributor Ladder</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2019/06/17/observations-on-wordpress-contributor-team-structure/\">Observations on WordPress Contributor Team Structure</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpressfoundation.org/news/2024/kim-parsell-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Apply for the Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship for WordCamp US 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Upcoming WordPress events:\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp Europe 2024</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\">Tickets</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Find upcoming events in your area on <a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/\">events.WordPress.org</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17229\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Angela:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insights into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I am your guest host, Angela Jin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s go!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:30] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Angela:</strong> I am delighted to be guest hosting this episode of the WordPress Briefing and to talk about the Contributor Mentorship Program, a community-driven initiative in the WordPress space that is proving to really support contributor journeys. And joining me today is special guest, Hari Shanker, Five for the Future Program Manager. Welcome, Hari!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:02] <strong>Hari:</strong> Thank you, Angela. Excited to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:04] <strong>Angela:</strong> Now, before we dive into the Contributor Mentorship Program, can you first tell me a bit about yourself? I&#8217;d love to know a bit more about your role as Five for the Future Program Manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:16] <strong>Hari:</strong> Sure. So, my name is Hari Shanker. I live in India in a city called Kochi. And I&#8217;d like to share some context to explain what I do. I am a sponsored contributor working full-time on WordPress, and I have been contributing primarily to the WordPress Community Team full-time since April 2020, where I am a Community Program Manager, formerly known as a Super Deputy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since September 2022, I have been working exclusively on projects that bolster the WordPress contributor experience. A key part of this work is my role as the Program Manager for the Five for the Future program, where my day-to-day work involves supporting and empowering companies and individuals that have pledged a part of their time to contribute to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:00] <strong>Hari:</strong> In parallel, I also lead the Contributor Working Group of the WordPress Community Team, which has the goal of making the contributor experience in WordPress the best it can be. Our recent focus has been on running an experimental contributor mentorship program as well. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:16] <strong>Angela:</strong> Excellent. Thank you. So, I was recently at Open Source Summit, and figuring out funding and commitments to projects was a very hot topic. And people were really interested in Five for the Future. And so, Hari, would you mind giving us a quick overview of what Five for the Future is, and how it aims to support the WordPress open source project?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:44] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. The Cofounder of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg, launched Five for the Future in 2014 as a call to action for organizations and individuals who have benefited from WordPress, either the CMS or the community, to contribute up to 5 percent of their resources to the continued success of the WordPress project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:03] <strong>Hari:</strong> In 2019, this idea was formalized as a program with a pledging page that lives in the URL WordPress.org/five. Right now, this program attempts to foster generous collaboration towards the long-term health and stability of our project for the future. So, like any large and successful open source project, WordPress has a lot of big goals and tasks, not all of which can be accomplished by volunteers in that available time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s where sponsored contributors come in. Sponsored contributors have more time, availability, and bandwidth to make an impact on a lot of these tasks. They also work on some routine but important administrative and housekeeping tasks that are essential to keep the project running smoothly. At this time, the program has 868 contributors from 183 companies, who have pledged 7,722 hours of contribution time per week for the program. I can also share that roughly 70% of contribution activity in WordPress is coming from these sponsored contributors. That is the Five for the Future program in brief.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:15] <strong>Angela:</strong> Thanks, Hari. That&#8217;s incredible that so much of our contribution comes through sponsored time and clearly is very necessary to keep the WordPress open source project running. Wonderful. All right, well, I would love to dig into the Contributor Mentorship Program. Can you tell us a bit more about how this came to be? What is the Contributor Mentorship Program?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:41] <strong>Hari:</strong> Oh, absolutely. It is one of my favorite programs and one of the best things that I&#8217;ve worked on personally. So, the Contributor Mentorship Program aims to onboard new contributors to WordPress by providing them one-on-one and cohort-based mentorship for a period of typically four to six weeks. The mentorship program typically coincides a major WordPress release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:04] <strong>Hari:</strong> And the idea behind the program is to help new contributors kickstart their WordPress contributor journey by providing them an in-depth overview of the WordPress project as well. To talk a bit about how this started, it all began in 2022-2023 when I started researching on the WordPress contributor experience. I discovered that there were gaps in the onboarding experience for new contributors. And I did some research on how we can solve this issue.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, while those gaps can be fixed by improving the overall WordPress contributor onboarding experience through technical changes or changes in the program. Mentorship really stood out as an excellent solution to solve the problem. Based on my discovery from this research, I worked on revitalizing the WordPress Contributor Working Group of the Community Team. And together, our group we started working on building a mentorship program. We did a few months of collaborative discussions and brainstorming. And as a result, the group put together the idea for a pilot cohort-based mentorship program, which paired up 13 new contributors as mentees with one mentor each. The cohort worked together for four weeks, and 11 of these mentees graduated after making impactful contributions to the project, with over half of the cohort staying on to make long-term contributions. In fact, we just wrapped up the second cohort of the program in February 2024, which had 52 participants, of which 44 graduated from the program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:34] <strong>Angela:</strong> Amazing. Congratulations. And I speaking just for myself, I know how important mentorship was to, to a lot of my journeys, both within WordPress and outside of, and so I think it&#8217;s wonderful that we&#8217;re able to bring mentorship to this space. What sort of benefits are there to participating in this program, either as a new WordPress contributor or as a mentor?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:04] <strong>Hari:</strong> There&#8217;s a bunch of benefits for both new contributors and mentors in this program, starting with new contributors. First and foremost, new participants in this program they get to kick off their WordPress contributor journey by making initial contributions. So, in my mind, the biggest benefit that they get is they get a chance to actually make their first contributions in the area of their choice with help from a mentor. The other main benefit that I see is that these mentees or new contributors. They get to learn a lot about the WordPress project and how it works. They get to learn about the WordPress release process broadly. And in short, participants in this program also get a chance to network with and learn from experienced WordPress contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And finally, this program is a great opportunity for mentees or new contributors to pick up a lot of valuable skills that they can use in the real world. For mentors, they also get a lot of benefits from this program. In fact, to share another anecdote, some of our mentors they contributed for the first time to WordPress core in the last cohort.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:14] <strong>Hari:</strong> So, that is also something that they also get to learn, which means mentors also get to learn new skills when they be a part of this program. So, for mentors, even they get to enhance their skills, they get to expand the network within the WordPress community, but in my mind, the biggest benefit that they gain is they gain fulfillment from guiding new contributors. And personally, as a mentor myself, it&#8217;s one of the most valuable thing that you can gain from such a program. That feeling of belonging, that feeling of, you know, fostering sustainability and innovation in the project. I also feel that mentoring new contributors is a great way to bolster your leadership and communication skills, which is extremely valuable in any professional context.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:54] <strong>Angela:</strong> Absolutely. I definitely see that being able to share your experience and mentor others is a really valuable way to help the next generation of WordPressers be successful in our space. Now, you&#8217;ve talked a bit about what results you&#8217;re seeing from this program, and it&#8217;s really exciting to see that so many mentees are successfully graduating from this program. I&#8217;d love to hear more about the impact and results that you&#8217;re seeing from the mentorship program. Could you give us more details there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:32] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. So, I shared some numbers earlier. We had 11 mentees out of 13 graduating from the 2023 cohort and 44 outta 52 mentees from the 2024 Q1 cohort graduating. From the first cohort we have six of these mentees continuing to make impactful contributions to the project, but we have more encouraging results from the second cohort, in fact. So, ten of our mentees in the second cohort got props for contributing to WordPress 6.5, and one of our mentees was a noteworthy contributor. That&#8217;s about 22% of all the mentees. Fourteen mentees from the latest cohort, which is 31%, they have committed to join the WordPress 6.6 release squad. And the program actually gave eight new core contributors to the project, which includes mentors, as I mentioned earlier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:21] <strong>Hari:</strong> We did pre and post-cohort surveys, and the results are very interesting. I can definitely share some numbers here. So, we had a question on contributor familiarity. The familiarity of contribution for new contributors went up from 53% to 80%, that&#8217;s around 26% increase. The contribution confidence went from 57% to 82%, which is around 28%-29%. We asked if the mentees how many of these mentees were satisfied by the program. We heard that 88% of all the mentees were satisfied. 80% of mentees achieved their personal goals as part of the program. A key part of the program experience was that we asked mentees to create contribution plans to make future contributions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:06] <strong>Hari:</strong> 62% of our mentees actually made a future contribution plan. So which means, which is a 30, 60, 90-day plan. So, these mentees they&#8217;re gonna follow a plan to contribute to WordPress for the next three months. Finally, we also created a ton of learning materials for these mentees, and we are in the process of releasing them. So these are, most of these are videos, so we plan to release them in WordPress or TV and in the Learn WordPress platform. So, in my mind, seeing these mentees out in the world making impactful contributions that is the biggest impact that I&#8217;m seeing. So, having them in the project as long-term contributors. That is, in my mind, one of the biggest impacts that we&#8217;ve had from this program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:46] <strong>Angela:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really incredible to see that new contributors to WordPress, upon joining this program, able to better navigate this vast ecosystem and make important contributions to our space. And that they&#8217;ve made these connections, so they are sticking around and staying with us and continuing to help us build WordPress. That&#8217;s incredible.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:14] <strong>Angela:</strong> Now, I understand that between the first cohort and the second cohort, the Contributor Working Group made some important updates and iterated on the cohort itself. And one of the big changes, I understand, was to design cohorts around contributor projects. I&#8217;m curious now that we&#8217;ve talked about how fantastic this program is. Are there plans for future cohorts, and what might those cohorts look like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:44] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. So, we have received a lot of interest in future cohorts. So, our working group just did a chat last week, and there was overwhelming positive interest and from all our working group members and other participants saying that we would love to be in a future cohort. So, short answer, yes, we will have a ton of these cohorts going forward. And we are, in fact, hosting a new cohort alongside WordPress 6.7. In October-November, 2024. And we will most likely continue to host at least one mentorship cohort every year. Ideally two, but I&#8217;m just saying one to make sure that we are sustainable. It is hard to predict how future cohorts will look like, but based on all the discussions our working group has had, I can definitely tell you how the next cohort is going to look like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:35] <strong>Hari:</strong> So, as per current plans, we will have around 20 to 30 mentees supported by mentors. And the cohort will most likely start early on in the 6.7 release process. The idea is that we would like our mentees to be more deeply involved in the 6.7 release as early as possible. We also plan to have a lot more learn-up sessions in the next cohort.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One feedback that we heard was our mentees really enjoyed some of the learn-up sessions, and they would like these sessions to be scheduled in advance as much as possible so that they can attend as many of them as possible. So, more learn-up sessions. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:14] <strong>Hari:</strong> And finally, you mentioned projects when you spoke of the latest cohort. We are going to double down on projects in the next cohort. So the hope is to have a host of projects for folks to work on and, ideally, have all mentees work on some project or the other. So, we had projects as an experiment for the earlier cohort. Some mentees did work on projects, while some they were broadly contributing. So, ideally, for the next cohort, every mentee in the program will be a part of some project or the other. It could be a small one. It could be a big one, but there will be some project of some sort for every mentee in the program, ideally. And finally, some contributors in our cohort, they received a scholarship to participate in the last cohort. We hope to expand that. We hope to provide more opportunities for scholarship for contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:05] <strong>Hari:</strong> I&#8217;m not sure how viable it is, but we did see that the folks who received scholarship, they got a chance to contribute more. So we would ideally like to provide more opportunities for scholarship, especially for folks from underrepresented backgrounds, so that they can contribute to WordPress and, you know, upskill as part of this program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:23] <strong>Angela:</strong> Fantastic. Well, hopefully, we have convinced our listeners today to get involved in the Contributor Mentorship Program. And so, if somebody wanted to get involved, either as a mentee or a mentor, how should they go about doing so?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:42] <strong>Hari:</strong> That&#8217;s a great question. We have not opened up signups for mentors and mentees for the next cohort yet. As I mentioned, it&#8217;s going to happen later this year. However, those interested in the next cohort of the program can comment on the post. I think we can share the link in the show notes. We just published a post announcing the graduation of our mentees, and we had asked folks who are interested in joining the next cohort comment there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:07] <strong>Hari:</strong> So if you&#8217;re interested in joining the next cohort, either as a mentor or a mentee. You can comment on that post. Alternatively, you can also DM me. If you&#8217;re not comfortable commenting in a public space, my name is Hari Shanker. I am Hari Shanker, which is H-A-R-I-S-H-A-N-K-E-R. That&#8217;s my username in the Make WordPress Slack. You can DM me there expressing your interest, and I will make sure that we send you the call for interest form when it&#8217;s published.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Additionally, and this is especially to all the mentor applicants, we have a Contributor Working Group, which meets every third Thursday of the month in the Community Team channel on a text chat. It&#8217;s called a mentorship chat. It happens every month, and you can find a link to it in the Make WordPress meetings, P2 blog. So, if you&#8217;re interested in being a mentor, or if you&#8217;re interested in building the Contributor Mentorship Program, or contributing to the Contributor Mentorship Program, I would invite you to join our chat. So, the next chat is being held in May. Please join our next chat. That&#8217;s also a great way to contribute to this program, especially if you are interested in being a mentor.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:10] <strong>Angela:</strong> Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me today, Hari. It&#8217;s been a pleasure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:16] <strong>Hari:</strong> Thank you. It&#8217;s been an honor, and thank you for inviting me to be a part of this program.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:19]&nbsp;(Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:27] <strong>Angela:</strong> And now it is time for our small list of big things. We&#8217;ve got three things for you this week. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first is a proposal to explore the Support Team contributor ladder. If you are not familiar with the concept of the contributor ladder, it is based on the five stages of volunteering, which examines how a volunteer gets onboarded and steps into progressive roles. By thinking through the contributor ladder, Make WordPress teams are able to improve onboarding, engagement, and connection with contributors and generally improve the health of their team. If this is of interest to you, we have a great overview post about the contributor ladder, and you can see the discussion in action over on the Support Team.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:14] <strong>Angela:</strong> Second, is that the WordPress Foundation has just announced the Kim Parcell Memorial Scholarship for 2024. This scholarship is in honor of Kim Parcell, an incredible long-time contributor, and is awarded to a current WordPress contributor who is a woman, has not previously attended WordCamp US, and requires financial assistance to attend this year&#8217;s event.&nbsp;The scholarship will provide travel assistance for the recipient to attend WordCamp US this year in Portland, Oregon, and covers travel from your home city, hotel, and your ticket to the event. The application is open through May 30th, and you can apply on the WordPress Foundation page.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Third is a reminder of our next big WordPress event, WordCamp Europe, which will be in beautiful Torino, Italy, June 13th through the 15th. You can still get tickets on their website. If you can&#8217;t make it to Italy, never fear. This time of year sees a good number of WordPress events around the world, and they are a great way to connect with WordPress friends and hear all about the latest and greatest in WordPress. You can go find upcoming events on events.WordPress.org to see what events are happening in your area. If there isn&#8217;t a WordPress event near you, you can become an organizer and start hosting events locally.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:42] <strong>Angela:</strong> And that, friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser, or if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those by emailing WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I am your guest host, Angela Jin. Thanks so much for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing. In a couple of weeks, Josepha will be back as your regular host for the next episode.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:21] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Apr 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:93:\"Do The Woo Community: A Comunidade Portugal do WordPress – The Portugal WordPress Community\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83262\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"https://dothewoo.io/a-comunidade-portugal-do-wordpress-the-portugal-wordpress-community/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:148:\"No nosso programa Vozes da Comunidade, WordPress pelo Mundo, destacamos a comunidade WordPress de Portugal para uma conversa na sua língua materna.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Apr 2024 08:15:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"Gravatar: Revamping User Authentication: The Role of Passkeys\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1366\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/26/revamping-user-authentication-the-role-of-passkeys/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15038:\"<p>Passkeys are leading the charge in transforming how we secure our digital identities.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This article offers a comprehensive exploration of passkeys – breaking down their mechanics, illustrating their advantages over traditional passwords, and showcasing their role in the next wave of secure online authentication.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you&#8217;re a developer, IT professional, or simply tech-curious, join us as we explore the ins and outs of passkeys, providing practical examples and guidance on how to implement them for a safer, smoother online experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>What are passkeys?</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A passkey is a secure method that distinctly identifies a user through advanced mechanisms that go beyond the traditional “something you know” attribute of passwords. Instead, passkeys encompass facets like “something you are”, like biometrics, or “something you have”, such as a physical security key.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/mJ-N_j8Rr3Kta7O0S1DPWe0hisuvejqbUimVJUxf6QqdNMVvbEEaURvRXrm342DaXsuKk8ce9AZBJs05gXVDUrN5tzDUJ0-2oGcoR6tJ98YNeS1jc63lCtOmY0FQaFyK-9JYAbF-uiPGN406xgZUwGU\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>Example of biometric authentication</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Using passkeys for your websites and platforms gives visitors an easy way to verify their identity without typing complex passwords, replacing them with unique and often temporary credentials, enhancing security and user experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These tokens often come in the form of unique, time-sensitive codes that protect online spaces against unwanted entries. The most common types include facial and fingerprint recognition, complicated designed patterns, or secure PINs, which are often specially generated for this specific login attempt.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are many advantages to integrating passkeys:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Enhanced security: </strong>Passkeys offer a more secure authentication method compared to traditional passwords, significantly reducing the risk of unauthorized access.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User-friendly: </strong>They simplify the login process, making it quicker and more convenient for users by eliminating the need to remember and type passwords.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Reduced forgetfulness issues: </strong>The temporary nature of passkeys means users don&#8217;t have to remember a static password, decreasing the chances of lockouts due to forgotten passwords.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Resistance to brute force attacks:</strong> Passkeys&#8217; unique and often temporary nature makes them much harder for attackers to guess through repeated trial and error.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Decreased dependency on password recovery: </strong>Passkeys significantly reduce the reliance on potentially insecure password recovery methods, as users no longer need to reset forgotten passwords frequently.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Passkeys are built on FIDO standards</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>​​Short for Fast Identity Online, <a href=\"https://fidoalliance.org/what-is-fido/\">FIDO is a global authentication standard</a> designed to reinforce and simplify the <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/\">digital authentication process</a>, making it simpler for users and more secure against threats.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These standards are based on public key cryptography and have played a crucial role in encouraging the adoption of passkeys by ensuring they comply with rigorous security and ease-of-use criteria.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Through the integration of FIDO protocols, such as <a href=\"https://fidoalliance.org/specs/u2f-specs-master/fido-u2f-overview.html\">U2F (Universal 2nd Factor)</a> and <a href=\"https://webauthn.io/\">WebAuthn</a>, passkeys benefit from an advanced security infrastructure. U2F adds a layer of protection by involving a physical security key in the authentication process, while WebAuthn allows for the registration and verification of users on web applications through biometric data, mobile devices, or FIDO security keys, moving away from password reliance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This combination of passkeys with FIDO standards has significantly improved digital authentication, making it safer and more user-friendly.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Understanding the user flow with passkeys</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Passkeys are revolutionizing the way we authenticate, making logging in smoother and more secure. Imagine the ease of entering a secure system or website without the hassle of remembering complex passwords. Here&#8217;s a simple breakdown of how a typical passkey authentication process works.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ol>\n<li><strong>Registration: </strong>First, a user chooses to create a passkey for a service. This often happens during the initial sign-up or through a settings menu for existing users. The user confirms their identity through a verification method, like an email link or a text message code.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Creating a passkey: </strong>The system prompts the user to authorize the creation of a passkey. This can be done using a device&#8217;s biometric features (like a fingerprint or facial recognition) or a PIN. The passkey is then generated and securely stored on the user&#8217;s device, as well as with the service, but in a way that the service can&#8217;t see the passkey itself.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Authentication:</strong> When returning to the service, the user is prompted to unlock their passkey, again using biometrics or a PIN. The device then communicates with the service, confirming the user’s identity without transmitting the passkey. This seamless interaction ensures that the user&#8217;s credentials are never exposed to potential theft.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/h-3BYhKjAzHzS7m2CRR052HrW-uSCLfW3eq3yuOBTOKOERTvaDgYpP6_DkkRcf4XV3a8297IjTP6_rVix8LoMDLp3yO-GJb7z4XVyjRxUoKDpGMlybjbSiOiQnWHPCrOikaHtJlKqkxHcz-cQhxr9Wk\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>How passkey authentication works</em></p>\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"4\">\n<li><strong>Cross-device usage: </strong>Passkeys can also be used across different devices, thanks to cloud synchronization, making authentication even more convenient without compromising security.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>This flow stands out from traditional passwords by eliminating the need for users to remember anything or enter credentials manually, reducing the risk of phishing or password theft. Besides that, because the authentication is tied to the user&#8217;s device and/or biometrics, it significantly enhances security.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Exploring real-world examples of the Passkeys experience</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>iOS, Android, and desktop recognition&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>On mobile platforms like <a href=\"https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-17/\">iOS</a> and <a href=\"https://www.android.com/\">Android</a>, the experience of using passkeys is designed to be incredibly intuitive. When users attempt to log into a service that supports passkeys, the operating system prompts them to authenticate using a method they are already familiar with, such as a fingerprint, facial recognition, or a PIN.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of modern laptops, both <a href=\"https://www.apple.com/\">Apple</a> and <a href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows\">Windows</a>, include a fingerprint scanner in the power button, and since 2015, Windows laptops have started including facial recognition, as well. Until a few years ago, this was a function only available for mobile devices.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, this is how the prompt looks on a Mac laptop when trying to access information behind a security wall, such as the <a href=\"https://passwords.google.com/\">Google Password Manager</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/GZlGyRgyu3PrBnsgE5crkCM3Kk4HU6B2_a35zOEDRaEgd85wDYjTpmqT8D-pwSJyMgelVRpb7rFIcKWJMcTHu-y-sMk9hYHzqB3HtL_WYsCP2_98CDtFAI_Uax15ZHJkkV0EeJ7aOuV4npax5rKz-pM\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>Touch ID option on a Mac computer</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the device&#8217;s settings, people can specify where they want to use this type of recognition. For instance, these are the settings for <a href=\"https://support.apple.com/en-us/102381\">Face ID</a> on an iPhone.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/jhIZZkyZll7qzM7XTaOtnQX9yRiPouo6M1rUbhRaUlXSzeHACN-hkb4wpG_aoJwxJEgWvxkyKBOR2P8kdNXC1AJ__WNHiFdtJi8u8LFc7aaxN8e88g3IKS20iXKzpVzpuFj86t0RU3hJiisD0aXUAlA\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>iPhone Face ID settings</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>This seamless process eliminates the need to type in usernames and passwords, offering a secure and streamlined login experience directly integrated into the device’s ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>LastPass</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/wHL2HDti53JiWZxrChIqFYKIoiFIDevPE6YxOVIMlSKIfjrOv9-yuTK-n_Mv2oQVyMWj9lQEc9cRfBnLg2SQim_LvhlfLc5BfIiF2NXLMrztex_LsFcmWoxAjQVXh-BlejN-c7Mxhg6UKmfql-Msb-Y\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>LastPass Passwordless Vault service page</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.lastpass.com/\">LastPass</a> is a popular password manager that has embraced passkeys, providing a user-friendly interface that simplifies the shift from traditional passwords to passkey authentication. Users can generate and manage their passkeys within the LastPass app, which then facilitates easy and secure access to various services.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Google Passkey</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/ld6VCp7T9H7ktjiChFNGi3g_V1PUT4i0U4sTvdgBQROssXfQY7GabMKekA34N4YLvLe7FsaQch2rjiUCJA8WCSKJCFzNHbw-v4BzRQN0XHwd0UbqkBW_2JXZ2W8krrgWesM5L02FuQwV9wJgbntFVy8\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><em>Google Passkey homepage</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Google has been at the forefront of implementing passkey authentication across its services. Users can <a href=\"https://www.google.com/account/about/passkeys/\">create a passkey for their Google Account</a>, which then allows for swift access to <a href=\"https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/\">Gmail</a>, <a href=\"https://www.google.com/drive/\">Google Drive</a>, and other Google services.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Why developers, users, and businesses prefer passkeys over passwords and MFA&nbsp;</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Over the past few years, more and more developers and businesses prefer passkeys over traditional passwords and Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA). Let’s see why.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>They&#8217;re safer</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Traditional systems are very vulnerable. For example, in 2021, <a href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/18/nyregion/nyc-law-department-hack.html\">the New York City Law Department experienced a significant cyberattack</a>, where attackers accessed sensitive data, including city employees&#8217; personal information, police misconduct evidence, plaintiffs&#8217; medical records, and the identities of minors charged with crimes, through a single employee&#8217;s compromised email password.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Passkeys, on the other hand, are immune to common threats like phishing and keylogging, as they do not transmit sensitive information that can be intercepted or deceitfully obtained.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is possible because passkeys use public-private key cryptography, a method far superior to the conventional password system. Unlike passwords, which rely on a shared secret known by both the user and the service, passkeys work by creating a pair of keys: a private one that stays with the user and a public one stored on the server. So, even if a server is compromised, attackers cannot impersonate the user without access to the private key.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>They’re easier to use</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Passkeys significantly simplify the user experience. People don’t need to remember complex passwords, manage multiple credentials, and constantly reset passwords.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Instead, they gain access with just a tap or a biometric check, making the process not only quicker but also more enjoyable. This simplicity and speed appeal to tech-savvy individuals and those less comfortable with technology, expanding the accessibility of secure online services.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>They result in more conversions</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The frictionless nature of passkey authentication reduces dropout rates during the signup process and encourages higher user retention by removing common login-related frustrations. This ease of use can significantly boost conversion rates, as users are more likely to complete sign-up processes and continue using services that offer an effortless access method.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Furthermore, by adopting passkeys, companies can distinguish themselves from competitors, offering a modern and secure authentication solution that appeals to privacy and convenience-conscious consumers.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>They can be used for single sign-on purposes</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Passkeys seamlessly integrate with Single Sign-On (SSO) solutions, enhancing both convenience and security. SSO allows users to access multiple services or applications with a single set of credentials, reducing the burden of remembering numerous passwords.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By incorporating passkeys into SSO frameworks, users enjoy an even smoother login experience across various platforms, with the added benefit of heightened security.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This integration not only simplifies user access but also bolsters productivity and security for businesses by minimizing the potential attack surface for cyber threats.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>It’s time to enter a passwordless future</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>By the end of this article, you’ll have understood what passkeys are – and more importantly, you’ll hopefully agree that it’s time for passkeys to trump passwords once and for all.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, we’re paving the way for a more open, connected, and user-centric internet – and our approach to profile management lets you build a complete digital identity management solution along with your passkeys authentication service.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With more than 20 years of serving as people’s globally recognized avatar, Gravatar allows users to create profiles that serve as universal identifiers across any website or web application that integrates with Gravatar’s API. This minimizes the need for users to manage data across different platforms and also minimizes the need for you as a developer or website owner to store user data directly.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if you’re looking to enhance your site, app, or online store, <a href=\"http://docs.gravatar.com\">discover more about how you can integrate Gravatar</a> and join the movement toward a more secure, efficient online experience for everyone.&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 26 Apr 2024 17:09:46 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"Do The Woo Community: Valkey Taking Over Redis and Open Source Funding with Robert and Courtney\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83090\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"https://dothewoo.io/valkey-taking-over-redis-and-open-source-funding-with-robert-and-courtney/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:113:\"Robert and Courtney discuss open source events, licensing changes in Redis, and the need for sustainable funding.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 25 Apr 2024 09:15:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"WPTavern: #117 – Maestro Stevens on Inclusivity in Website Design Decisions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155507\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:91:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/117-maestro-stevens-on-inclusivity-in-website-design-decisions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35766:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, inclusivity in web design decisions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL in to most podcasts players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Maestro Stevens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro is an international speaker and managing director of The Iconic Expressions. His areas of expertise include digital marketing, brand strategy, web development, and project leadership.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, Maestro lays out the case for how inclusivity is not just something that we need to be concerned about at things like events, but also in our WordPress website designs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro recently gave a presentation at WordCamp Asia entitled unlocking universal creativity, the future of inclusive WordPress design. He wants to get people to think about making design choices with inclusivity in mind so that they&#8217;re representative of various cultures and varied backgrounds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro reveals the challenges and the pushback he is faced on his journey, telling us about the struggles and support he&#8217;s found within the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His approach includes utilizing AI to create unique imagery, reflective of a diverse population, and how he sees this as something new in the industry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The discussion also gets into the practical side as well, with Maestro outlining some of the technical aspects and future plans for his ideas, extending an open invitation to listeners who wish to contribute or learn more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you curious about the intersection of creativity, representation, and the WordPress ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A quick note, before we begin, this was recorded live at WordCamp Asia. There was quite a lot of background noise to contend with, and I&#8217;ve done my best to make the audio as easy to listen to as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Maestro Stevens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Maestro Stevens. How are you doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:16] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> I&#8217;m doing great. I&#8217;m doing excellent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very nice to have you with us. We&#8217;re at WordCamp Asia. We&#8217;re in the venue. Maestro is joining me on the second day of the conference, so it&#8217;s the third day, including contributor day. You&#8217;ve already done your presentation, which I think you did yesterday?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:32] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yes I did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It was entitled Unlocking Universal Creativity, the Future of Inclusive WordPress Design. We&#8217;re going to get into that, and have a conversation around that subject in a moment. Before we do that, Maestro, will you just spend a minute telling us who you are, and what your WordPress journey is, your relationship with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:52] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> And all I have is a minute, Nathan?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Just one minute. Just a minute. The clock starts, no. As long as you like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:59] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, first of all, thank you for having me again. This is an honor. And for us to be in person is another honor. As you mentioned, my name is Maestro Stevens, the fresh prince of WordPress. And my whole goal is bringing a fresh perspective to those who have a misunderstanding of what WordPress is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In my spare time, I love to cook. I used to be a chef, in another life. I have a daughter. I love technology. I love creating opportunities. I love creating dreams for people, bringing people to WordCamp for the first time. That&#8217;s my spiel.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, that&#8217;s really nice, and you&#8217;ve missed out something, which is that you&#8217;re also really into audio. And we spent a good 10 minutes before we hit record, just obsessing about the equipment that we&#8217;ve got. Which, as you can probably hear, dear listener, is not as good as it could be. But it&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve got. It&#8217;s portable, and it will do the job.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So tell us about the talk. Give us the nitty gritty on why you chose that title. What was it all about? And we&#8217;ll have a journey, a conversation, and dig into it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:58] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yeah. Well, I got a confession to make. The title is a little bit of a hook. You know, it&#8217;s nothing new that we don&#8217;t do. However, it&#8217;s still authentic, in as far as the presentation is concerned, mainly because I wanted to bridge the gap with helping people understand that, when it comes to diverse creators, people from ethnic backgrounds or different backgrounds, such as WordCamp Asia, that accessibility can be used interchangeably with the word inclusivity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because when you are making things accessible, you&#8217;re saying, I want to include others. And sometimes we separate those two terminologies. They have different meanings, but they are cousins or, you know, family related. So I really wanted to help people understand that our platform, Iconic Templates, which is what I was talking about yesterday, is a platform created for those who want to be included, and need to access certain tools and solutions, that typically would normally not have access.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What you&#8217;ve just described, is this something that you find important on a personal level? Is this a journey, not just in the WordPress space? Is this something that you, I was going to use the word preach, but that&#8217;s the wrong word, adjacent to preach. Is this something that you talk about in other spheres as well?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:05] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yes. I would say, well, one, to answer your question, it is a passion of mine. I ran into a lot of issues myself. I think us business owners, and entrepreneurs, and creators, a lot of the problems that we solve for others, stem from us. And something that I would say I did not see a lot of, when I was looking at something as templates on the internet, and I&#8217;m not going to point out any particular company but, you know, there&#8217;s just a lot of templates that I saw, that didn&#8217;t have imagery and representation that reminded me of me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, I know it&#8217;s controversial, because I&#8217;ve got some backlash from this in certain communities. People are just going to take the content out anyway. They&#8217;re going to replace the images and replace the things. But the reality is, people want to see them. They want to hear them. They want to know that the company, that&#8217;s creating tools for them, thought of them in mind. Hey, we&#8217;re going to make this thing, and then we&#8217;re going to slap on some stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whereas, we&#8217;ve created everything. We&#8217;ve created with certain cultures, and certain industries in mind. From not just the imagery and the content, but even the structure and the layout. So we are coming from the forefront, and not the aftermath of adding others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounds, from what you just said, as if there&#8217;s been a little bit of pushback from certain people. Is that the minority? Do you find WordPress, as a community, I mean obviously that&#8217;s a bit of an umbrella phrase, and you know, it&#8217;s made of millions and millions of different people. But, do you find the WordPress community, on the whole, receptive to what you are saying? Or is it more a case of, you are having to push back, and explain yourself over and over again, and being challenged and pushing back?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:37] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, Nathan, yes. I&#8217;ve been challenged a lot. To be transparent with you, when we launched a year and a half ago with this platform, inside of a couple communities, very small, we had good reception only because I made an adjustment, because I got scared.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first thing that happened, when I said I&#8217;m going to create this platform for diverse creators and BIPOC communities, people, for lack of a better term, did not like that. They gave me a lot of negative feedback. So what I did is I said, okay, well let&#8217;s create the platform for everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I spoke at WordCamp Europe. Then I spoke at WordCamp US. Now I&#8217;m here speaking at WordCamp Asia. And I realised that there are a lot of people that do want to see, I would say the type of, not product, but the type of solutions, and the type of representation. But I had to meet these people in real life, and I had to learn my tribe. And every WordPress community is not your tribe, even if they, quote unquote, liked your product before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:34] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you get a sense that this is a case of the quiet majority who don&#8217;t speak up to support what you are doing? Do you get that feeling? Because it sounds like, when you&#8217;ve come to these events, you have met kindred spirits, people who are aligned with what you are aligned with, but you had to go and find them. Which kind of tells me they were always there in the first place, but they didn&#8217;t let you know that they were there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So is it a case of that? You know, people just keeping quiet and putting their head under the parapet, to dodge the proverbial arrow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:02] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yeah, I think it&#8217;s a little bit of all that. And it&#8217;s crazy that I&#8217;m learning how to, I don&#8217;t want to say play the game, but be careful on the things that I say, because I can be very outspoken at times. That&#8217;s a gift and a curse, in some ways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So with that being said, I do think that it is, when you say the word minority and majority, there are people that are afraid to speak up, and there are people who don&#8217;t want to speak up, because it will ruin their opportunities and their, what they&#8217;ve gained, I guess, growing in the ladder of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because there&#8217;s gatekeepers in WordPress. You know, there&#8217;s people that you have to appease in certain ways. And there&#8217;s people that don&#8217;t want to hear your voice all the time. So I do think, to your point, when you think about it, the majority versus the minority, it&#8217;s a little bit of all. But I do think there&#8217;s a lot of people who are afraid to say something, and there&#8217;s people who don&#8217;t want to say something, because they don&#8217;t want to ruin what they have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That sort of feels a bit upsetting really though, doesn&#8217;t it? On some level, it feels like that&#8217;s a bit of a shame. But you&#8217;re right. We definitely have some strong characters in the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Are you talking about being online? So in, you know, groups, on various different platforms. Is it that kind of community that you&#8217;ve been involved in?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:09] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, okay. And there are some definite characters, aren&#8217;t there? And some people who have fairly loud voices.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:14] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So you&#8217;ve made the effort to come out and speak about these things. At these events, have you felt that you&#8217;ve had a nice reception? Has it been a different experience?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:24] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Good question. I would say, not to be redundant, but a little bit of both. Going to WordCamp Europe was an eyeopener. Athens, Greece, I mean, well, one, not a lot of people that live there that look like me. I stood out immediately, just from that perspective. And then actually going to WordCamp itself, where we&#8217;re told that they are looking at it from an inclusive lens and, you know, we want to involve everybody, make everybody feel comfortable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I actually got in the venue, in the building, I thought that the stares were going to stop. You know, I thought that the looks were going to stop, and they didn&#8217;t all stop. And that&#8217;s not everybody, but it was quite obvious, and quite a few. But I will definitely say, when I did my presentation, those people who joined the presentation showed love. When I did a presentation yesterday, those who joined showed love. I&#8217;ve been seeing random people say, hey man, I saw your presentation yesterday. I didn&#8217;t even know they did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then I got way more questions than I ever would&#8217;ve thought I would&#8217;ve gotten, because people were like, oh, he&#8217;s not afraid to talk about this. And so they&#8217;re raising their hands and they&#8217;re saying, well, what do I do? I&#8217;m hearing that from people from all across the world. And I love that. So that, to me, is what sticks out more than anything. The rest of the nonsense, for lack of a better term, I&#8217;m striving to kind of let that go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:35] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you feel safe in these spaces?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:38] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Hmm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s not an immediate yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:41] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> No, it&#8217;s not immediate yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. I mean, we don&#8217;t have to go down that path if you don&#8217;t wish to. But I am curious, because we are quite good as a community at congratulating ourselves, on how accommodating we are. And we definitely have people, and I know that you know many of the people that I&#8217;m not going to name, but you probably will intuit who I&#8217;m talking about, who fight this fight, and they make the effort.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it is interesting to me that despite all of that, there&#8217;s still, it sounds like considerable amounts of work to be done. The example of WordCamp Athens that you&#8217;ve just described, that doesn&#8217;t sound like a particularly pleasant experience that you had there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:19] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> I&#8217;m grateful that I had the opportunity to even go. That changed my life. I encourage anybody who is thinking of getting a different perspective of life in the world, it doesn&#8217;t matter what kind of pushback or resistance that you get, travel. Travel to places that you would&#8217;ve never been before. Even if you&#8217;re going to get looked at, and stared at, and feel uncomfortable, because you&#8217;ll learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, which will give you a different perspective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, to your point, and going back to the whole safety aspect of things, I would say I don&#8217;t always feel the safety net that I would love to be able to speak up. I will say that, for the most part, going to Athens, Greece, as an example, it reminded me of WordPress is also a reflection of the world too, to a degree. We still have some work to do in the world, you know, everywhere. And WordPress is doing what it can to help mitigate that. But I do think, to your point, there&#8217;s a lot of work to be done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And just really quickly, I&#8217;ve called out some founders. And when it came to certain issues or certain things, to help support me and back me up, and I&#8217;ve noticed that they&#8217;ve chose profit over passion, you know, over mission. And the funny part is, the data shows, because I&#8217;m a data analyst, you know, I have an agency as well too. Data shows that most people, they want to purchase, and they want to deal with brands that actually are mission based. How ironic is that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s kind of a catch 22 that, you know, there&#8217;s these founders that don&#8217;t want to touch certain issues. Most people purchase based on, is there a mission, a value, the reasons? They&#8217;re not just purchasing on quality, you know, things like that. It&#8217;s, who is behind it? Why are they doing it? What are they doing it for?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s interesting, I often end up at the about page, soon after I&#8217;ve gone to the pricing page, because I do want to know about the company that I&#8217;m buying the plugin, or whatever it may be. And it, yeah, it does play a certain part.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m going to ask this question. Feel free to ignore it, because I don&#8217;t know what pitfalls there may be inside this. Does geography play a part in this? Do you find that you can have this conversation more easily at home, for example, in the US? Is it a conversation that&#8217;s being more advanced, more acceptable to have, more straightforward?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve obviously mentioned Europe, we&#8217;ve got Asia, there&#8217;s different complexities. They&#8217;ve obviously got their own things going on. But, do you notice that geography plays a part in this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:36] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yes, I think so. And I had some conversations today with a couple other founders from East Asia, and it was great to hear that I&#8217;m, they&#8217;re from a different country and different culture. They&#8217;re saying they find the same issues. I&#8217;m like, so I&#8217;m not crazy. You know, it&#8217;s not an American thing, you know what I mean? It&#8217;s not a US thing. It&#8217;s an everywhere thing, and global positioning does play a part in it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, I am grateful that WordPress has people like yourself, and people that are, I would consider allied. Creating platforms where people like me can talk, and speak about these issues, because otherwise people are normally just trying to kind of suppress the conversation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s interesting, isn&#8217;t it? Because, we&#8217;ve talked for probably about 15 minutes so far, and it feels like we might have been being very negative, but I&#8217;m not feeling that really. I&#8217;m feeling more like there&#8217;s a lot of goodness in the WordPress community, but no community is a hundred percent perfect, and there&#8217;s work to be done. And you have had experiences which are real. They happen, they existed. You&#8217;ve talked to these people, and you&#8217;ve got these receptions, so it needs to be addressed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Your product, you&#8217;ve said, tries to address this. And I&#8217;m curious as to how templates, parts of a website, how we can map the conversation that we&#8217;ve just had, over to a product. So tell me about that. I mean, you alluded to it a little while ago, but just really flesh out what Iconic Templates is, and what it does, and why it&#8217;s different.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:04] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> I love this question, because it helps give me a different perspective of, how do I define it? And I&#8217;m learning, you know, based on the reception. I would say, for the most part, our goal with Iconic Templates, and this is the reason why some of our product lines have the word universal in them. For example, universal template themes, universal template library.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I believe that a big problem in the WordPress ecosystem, and in other ecosystems, is that a person says, hey, I like that look. I like that style, but I don&#8217;t use that tool. And so what we are trying to do, striving to do, because Yoda says, you do or you don&#8217;t, there is no try.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what we&#8217;re striving to do is bridge that gap for people to say, you&#8217;ve made a style or a look that fits me. Whatever it is they do, whatever industry, vertical they&#8217;re in, whatever ethnic background they have. And they&#8217;re like, but I use the classic editor still, I don&#8217;t use full site, or I use the page builder. Do you have that look and that style in the page builder that I use? Do you have that look and that style with a plugin that I use? You know, there&#8217;s email plugins, there&#8217;s form plugins, there&#8217;s automation plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what we&#8217;re striving to do with Iconic Templates is create this universal tether. An ecosystem where you&#8217;re saying, I like that look and that style, but I may want to use this plugin versus this plugin. I want to use this theme versus that theme, but I want to keep the theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, if we were to go to iconictemplates.com, and we were to look at your, I&#8217;m going to use the word library, because I think you said that, your library of patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:34] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> So for instance, we have a library called Uni-Blocks. And so our Uni-Blocks library is block patterns. Keep it short and simple. Our Uni-Blocks library currently is created with Kadence Blocks, for example. So our next step would be creating it with Elementor widgets or Spectra, for example. That&#8217;s pretty much what we&#8217;re doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What would I be seeing? I&#8217;m imagining I&#8217;m on the website, I know we&#8217;re doing audio, so it&#8217;s very hard to do this. Bear with us, we&#8217;ll try and get there. What would I be seeing that would be different from what I might see elsewhere? How would you explain the visual difference of what I might see with what you&#8217;ve got, than what other companies bring to bear?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:12] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, one, you&#8217;re going to see a lot of imagery of black and brown people, and people from other ethnic backgrounds. You&#8217;re going to see a lot of that. Two, you&#8217;re going to see a little bit of, we&#8217;ll say nerdiness, geekiness, mixes with cool, intentionally mixed with some coolness.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a background where, I love Hip-Hop. I haven&#8217;t seen anybody infuse Hip-Hop into their template platform. So when you go on our platform, you&#8217;re going to see these backgrounds. I said this in my presentation yesterday, one of my favorite artists is Jay-Z. And when we first started the platform, I didn&#8217;t know who I was. So we made our color scheme with a whole bunch of colors, all over the rainbow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I can&#8217;t make this up, one day this is going to be a famous story, but it was a reflection of who I was. I didn&#8217;t have my identity intact, so our company and our brand didn&#8217;t have its identity intact. It came to me in an epiphany, in a eureka moment. I was working with my designer Dessa, and she needed more inspiration from me, on how to create this design, or layout for our site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was stuck. I had a dream. I was like, man, who&#8217;s my favorite artist? Oh, Jay-Z. What album did he make that&#8217;s one of my favorite albums? The Blueprint. Aren&#8217;t templates blueprints, aren&#8217;t we as people, blueprints? So then I was like, oh, it&#8217;s blue, and the color of blue is solidarity. There&#8217;s meanings behind blue. And most companies use blue. You know, a lot of tech companies use blue.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I said, what is the odds of that? That tech companies use blue, one of my favorite artists has an album called The Blueprint, and we are blueprints for others. So when you go to our website, you&#8217;re going to see a blue background with little templates. And that was inspired by Jay-Z&#8217;s album, The Blueprint.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And so, you mentioned the imagery is a big part. You&#8217;re differentiating yourself by going out, and deliberately finding images, which represent the entire world. Does it also stretch to text? Are you surfacing text that you think is aligned in this way as well?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:02] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, Nathan, here&#8217;s the thing, I&#8217;m going to blow your mind here. One of our big value propositions, or values, is transparency. So, I say our process is a template, our website is a template, and we offer templates. What do I mean by that? Everything we&#8217;ve done, I&#8217;ve intentionally done in a way that can be duplicated for others. We&#8217;re going to teach from that. The process is a template.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People can go to our website, and literally look at our website and say, I want to copy what you&#8217;ve done. And what most people don&#8217;t know is, every image you&#8217;re going to see, is made with AI. We do a lot of experimentation. So we use Midjourney, for example. So you said the word find, no, we didn&#8217;t find, we created, generated, based on words, based on the text. So there&#8217;s not a single image on that website that you will see, that you will find anywhere else, in any stock library.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right. So it&#8217;s unique. It isn&#8217;t from a stock library.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:50] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Not at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> How has the platform launched? Since the moment you went public with it, and you&#8217;ve put it out there, how has the reception been? I mean, I&#8217;m guessing by the fact that you are here in WordCamp Asia, and obviously are making a living out of this in some way, shape, or form, it must be going all right. But I don&#8217;t know, you tell me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:06] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, we&#8217;re still in the beginning stages, I&#8217;ll say that. So I&#8217;m still learning to simplify things. One of our biggest problems that we had with our templates, which I&#8217;ve talked to a couple founders today, who are going to help solve this problem, I&#8217;m grateful. But it was cumbersome for people to import our templates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So even though we have these different solutions, where you can import our form templates, email templates and automations, you had to do it all one by one. But we&#8217;re going to create a plugin, or a solution, where it&#8217;s a one click, you just click the button and you get to import everything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m saying this to say that, our reception, I can&#8217;t give a direct answer with that just yet, because I haven&#8217;t had enough time being able to get feedback. The feedback that I have gotten has been really well. But I&#8217;ve also gotten feedback that let me know, hey, you&#8217;ve got some room to grow. And so we made changes based on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is there any element of this which is a community project? Because obviously you&#8217;ve built a company around it, or you&#8217;ve adapted, you know, it&#8217;s a part of your other companies. But do you welcome contributions or ideas? Do you have a form out there, where people can give you suggestions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:07] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Heck yeah. I&#8217;m getting ready to work with another designer, a designer from BlackPress, shout out to Wyn. Anybody else who wants to contribute, involve, collaborate. I know I would appreciate it, I know my designer Dessa would appreciate it. Some help, you know, from others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the reason why I say that is because, to be, again, transparent, she&#8217;s from the Philippines. So to have a person who&#8217;s from a different country create imagery, or create designs for another culture, for people who are not them, it could be a little difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:35] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:36] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> So I want to bring some authenticity into it. For instance, I want to bring people from their own countries, and their own cultures, to help tell me, hey Maestro, you need to do this with that. That&#8217;s not what my people like. You may be reading the blogs, and reading things, and watching videos, but that&#8217;s not what we look like. That&#8217;s not what we do. So I need people like that, so that way we can be authentic when we&#8217;re representing them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where would you signpost people to go in the WordPress community? If things that you&#8217;ve mentioned so far have turned a light on with them, and they think, oh, this is something I could get involved in. I think I&#8217;ve got a voice that would help Maestro out. This is something that I&#8217;m aligned with. What kind of places would you go? Maybe that could be, I don&#8217;t, Slack channels, or it could be something different. It could be an individual who you&#8217;ve been impressed by, who you thought, okay, they&#8217;re really perfectly aligned. Tell us where to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:26] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> BlackPress is one of the communities that I&#8217;m heavily involved in, and I respect, because the founders are aligned with a lot of my views. There are other communities as well, that I&#8217;m discovering that could be as much of an intricate part in our mission, in our journey. However, I don&#8217;t know enough now to say, you know, all those communities are, at this point in time. And the communities that I thought were that, I found out they&#8217;re not that. Right now I&#8217;m in a little bit of a transition of, who are my communities and tribes that I can pull from and find?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> But we can certainly, when we round off this podcast, we can reference you. And people can come and find you and, you know, maybe it&#8217;s a year from now, and you&#8217;ll have had a more solid idea of where you would want people to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It sounds to me like you&#8217;re at the beginning of this journey then. You&#8217;re still trying to crystallise everything. You&#8217;re still thinking about the roadmap, you&#8217;re still figuring it out, and all of that. Where would we go if we wanted to find you? What&#8217;s the website? I think I mentioned it, but tell us again. What social channels, email address, whatever you want to share, where can we find you, Maestro?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:27] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Well, at this moment in time, you can just go to the website, and go to our contact page. If you really care, and you want to be involved, we have a nice form there. You know, I strive to make it as welcoming as possible for people. Or you can contact me on LinkedIn. So it&#8217;s either iconictemplates.com, you can find me on LinkedIn, Maestro Stevens, is a one of one. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anybody else in the world with that name. So you can either Google me, you can LinkedIn, you can go to the website Iconic Templates, or you can send a bird, you know? We can go old school, send a pigeon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is there anything we missed? Do you want to say something that we missed out on?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:01] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> I think you hit a lot of things on the nail. I just want to say that it is great to be here to see you in person. I don&#8217;t know how long it was. Maybe, it feels like a year where.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think about a year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:11] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Yeah, Yeah we had our first interview online. So now, a year later, we&#8217;re meeting in person. It just shows how you just never know, and showing up is half the battle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. I love events like this. I get to meet fabulous people much like yourself. So, Maestro, thank you very much for chatting to me on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:29] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Thank you, Nathan. I really appreciate you. You&#8217;re doing a great job with your podcast, with your platform. You are consistent. You are a working horse.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I just wish had a better microphone at this event. But you can teach me all about that when we switch this one off.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:43] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> I&#8217;m going to give you some tips.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Take care, Maestro.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:45] <strong>Maestro Stevens:</strong> Alright. Thank you.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/maestrostevens/\">Maestro Stevens</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro is an international speaker and managing director of The Iconic Expressions. His areas of expertise include digital marketing, brand strategy, web development, and project leadership.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode Maestro lays out the case for how inclusivity is not just something that we need to be concerned about at things like events, but also in our WordPress website designs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro recently gave a presentation at WordCamp Asia entitled, Unlocking Universal Creativity: The Future of Inclusive WordPress Design. He wants to get people to think about making design choices with inclusivity in mind, so that they are representative of various cultures and varied backgrounds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro reveals the challenges and the pushback he has faced on his journey, telling us about the struggles and support he’s found within the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His approach includes utilising AI to create unique imagery, reflective of a diverse population, and how he sees this as something new in the industry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The discussion also gets into the practical side as well, with Maestro outlining some of the technical aspects and future plans for his ideas, extending an open invitation to listeners who wish to contribute or learn more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about the intersection of creativity, representation, and the WordPress ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://iconictemplates.com/\">Iconic Templates</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://iconictemplates.com/products/uni-blocks/\">Uni-Blocks</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.kadencewp.com/kadence-blocks/\">Kadence Blocks</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://elementor.com/\">Elementor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpspectra.com/\">Spectra</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.midjourney.com/home\">Midjourney</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/04/09/unlocking-universal-creativity-the-future-of-inclusive-wordpress-design/\">Unlocking Universal Creativity: The Future of Inclusive WordPress Design</a> &#8211; Maestro&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp Asia</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://blackpresswp.com/\">BlackPress</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/maestrostevens/\">Maestro&#8217;s LinkedIn</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"Do The Woo Community: Adding Public Relations to Your WordPress or Woo Biz Stack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83077\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"https://dothewoo.io/adding-public-relations-to-your-wordpress-or-woo-biz-stack/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:118:\"Learn about PR within the WordPress community and the emphases of relationship-building over aggressive sales tactics.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"HeroPress: How I Found My Place\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=6726\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:114:\"https://heropress.com/essays/how-i-found-my-place/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-i-found-my-place\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5839:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/042224-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Pull quote: As I reflect on my journey, I am grateful for every stumble, every triumph, and every WordCamp that brought me here.\" /><p>I was never what you&#8217;d call a &#8220;techie.&#8221; Software development was a mystery to me, and JavaScript seemed like an alien language. But fate has a funny way of guiding us to unexpected places, and my journey into the world of technology began with a single WordCamp.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had never been to a WordCamp, or any other tech-related gathering for that matter. But my husband was very active in the WordPress community in Riverside, California, and he had made a lot of good friends through Meetups and WordCamps. He had volunteered as one of the organizers for WordCamp Riverside one year and came back raving about what a great time he had, so the second year he volunteered, I decided to go.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6726_59c270-91 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Meeting The Family For The First Time</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>When I stepped into the event—held in an unassuming warehouse of a local solar panel company—the vibrant atmosphere greeted me like an old friend. Everywhere I looked, there were smiling faces, eager to share their knowledge and passion for WordPress. It was a community unlike any I had ever seen before. And while I didn&#8217;t have the technical skills, I was determined to soak up as much as I could.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>During the day, I attended workshops and talks, my notebook quickly filling up with scribbled notes and newfound terms like CSS, plugins, and PHP. I even mustered up the courage to ask questions during the Q&amp;A sessions, feeling a sense of empowerment with each answer I received.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it wasn&#8217;t just the knowledge that drew me in; it was the people. I made connections with designers, developers, and entrepreneurs alike, each one offering their support and guidance. They welcomed me into their community with open arms, assuring me that technical skills could be learned, and that my passion and enthusiasm were just as valuable.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6726_099cf3-dc wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Reaching Out</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Encouraged by this supportive environment, I sought out people who were like me, but had already made it in the tech world. People who could guide me. So I search for black woman entrepreneurs working in tech, and I found a group in Los Angeles. It was there that I truly found my tribe—a diverse group of individuals who shared a common goal: to make the web a better place. We met regularly, offering free help to each other, discussing ideas, and collaborating on projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Months turned into years, and my understanding of WordPress and web development grew with each passing day. I took online courses, attended more WordCamps, and devoured every book on the subject I could find. 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